Reverence: Vittoria Open Pavé CG
Normally The Keepers reserve our Reverence articles for products we’ve used for years, or with new stuff that has had at least six months of duty. Riding the cobbles of Belgium and Northern France can put most gear (and bodies) through six months of abuse in just a few weeks, so in this case the work these tyres have been put through there and in the months since qualifies them for a deserved earlier dose of Reverence.
Selecting what gear to run for the Cobbled Classics Keepers Tour wasn’t too hard a task; there are some things which just go with cobbles bikes like double wrapped bartape, alloy steerer fork and of course box section rims laced 3 cross. Tubular or clincher was about the only tough decision I had to make. I managed to find a cheap pair of Ambrosio tub rims, but as they were 36 hole it proved impossible to find a cassette hub in time for the tour. How bad could clinchers be? After all, Freddy Guesdon won Roubaix on clinchers in 97, and the Pavé boys would have spare wheels if something went terribly awry. It wasn’t the cobbles that would claim my clinchers, but the ham-fisted rock apes generously referred to by airlines as baggage handlers.
Choosing a tyre to run was probably the easiest task. It had to be Vittoria’s Open Pavé CG‘s, based on what I’d seen gracing Pro’s bikes in just about every edition of the Spring Classics I’d witnessed. The distinctive green herringbone tread stripe is as synonymous with these races as are crazed fans, beer and frites en mayo. Unfortunately the ‘Open Tubular’ doesn’t come in the 28mm width of it’s tubular brethren, but a 24mm version only. That extra mm wasn’t a lot but it was something. The real benefit of the tyres though is the 320TPI casing, yeilding a super smooth ride on any surface. Coupled with Vittoria’s Latex inner tubes, the feel of cushioning under the bike is definitely noticeable. Over all of the 21 secteurs we rode on the way to Roubaix, then another 15 of the worst a few days later, topped with a full complement of Flandrian roads, I only once feared I might hear the dreaded hiss from my tyres. Nailing an edge of a nasty cobble hard enough to feel the rock hitting the rim, the tyre bounced off and the slippery latex tube stayed intact. On return to NZ, I inspected the tyres for damage and was surprised and delighted to find nary a nick or any signs of wear.
I’ve been riding the Pavés ever since the Tour, and don’t want to swap them out at least until the Kiwi winter is over. The ride continues to impress with their sheer suppleness (dare I say souplesse?) over rough surfaces. They aren’t the lightest or fastest rolling, but neither am I. For summer I think I’ll try the lighter Corsa Evo SC‘s, which look just as cool with their tan sidewalls and are another Pro favourite. And if you’re worried about a green stripe clashing with your bike’s paint job, I think there should be a Rule #8 ammendment that the only coloured tyre allowed on any bike, due to it’s unrivalled heritage, is the venerable and now ReVered Open Pavé CG.
Thanks to Graeme at Cycle Sport NZ for his generosity in supplying the tyres and tubes.
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Whoah, format control on a coffee break…..
@the Engine Yes to both your back complaint and, more importantly, to the risk of high-speed Pyrenean blowouts!
There recall reading of quite a few tests where a they found that while a tyre at 160psi doesn’t offer lower rolling-resistance (nevermind cornering traction), it feels faster since we associate bumpiness with speed.
I had a go last month at a 404 Firecrest, instead of my usual PRO RC50. The difference was far, far too big to call a placebo effect – it was as big as the difference between box-sections and the RC50. Worth keeping an eye on a set of ENVE Smarts or the new Bontragers, too. Wide aero rims are absolutely real.
I wonder one thing about air-loss in latex tubes: With my butyls, the ones with sealant lose practically nothing. My rear #1 hasn’t been pumped in at least two months and still feels as solid as when I pumped to 105psi. The front, without sealant, needs a pumping every few days. I guess latex tubes respond the same way – but will they lose their ride-quality as a result?
@Oli
@Oli – if that’s your opinion then I will take it very seriously
@snoov Higher thread count also makes tires more flat susceptible. So while Open Corsa will be a smoother tire, it is also more flat prone. I have a friend who rides Vittoria Diamante (1 step below the OC, 1 above Rubino). We ride the same roads, same trashy shoulders, etc. and he flats more often than I do. My son started out riding really crappy CSTs with 25 TPI, he never flatted under conditions when I would. Luck of the draw, random chance, maybe. I think you choose tires based on application and look to split the difference between performance and durability. For racing application, look at performance and training rides looking for durability. For you guys looking at the 200 on 100, its about the trade off and what you are willing to give up in performance to keep rolling and finish the ride.
@Gotta Ride Today
Thanks GRT, I think I’ll stick with the Rubinos, haven’t had a puncture yet.
I have a theory about punctures, some riders get way more than others on similar equipment, how can that be?
While out on a run a month or so ago we met this guy on his own and I asked him if he’d like to join us. He’d never ridden with anyone and I suggested he get on a wheel at the back to experience the buzz of drafting, needless to say he loved it and to his credit wanted to take a turn in the wind. He’d said that he gets a lot of punctures and when I got behind him I knew why. He seemed to roll straight over every bit of road I’d avoid without a care in the world. I didn’t mention it to him as I felt it’d be rude on the first meeting. It’s maybe because I’m an extreem sports veteran because on BMXs and Skateboards I’d always be looking for either a fun lip to pop off or a little stone that might stop me dead or give me a puncture. If there’s a coin on the street I expect to see it if I might not pick it up.
Another guy on the club run was in front of me when the shout came “car on” and he was pretty much riding on the white line in the middle of the road. I thought he’d move over but he didn’t then as the car nearly hit him he looked back at me with a smile and said, “That was much closer than I thought it was gonna be.” And he rolled over so many potholes ignoring hand signals from in front that I decided to be very wary of him, in fact I avoid his wheel if I can.
I’m not saying folks around here who puncture often are similar to these two guys it’s maybe I’m just lucky that the roads around here are pretty good, plenty of chip seal though.
@snoov
It makes no sense but I wonder if there is an equipment aspect too. I may jinx myself by saying this, but I have never had a flat on my #2 and it has 15-20 k on it, with a variety of wheelsets and tires. It’s also aluminum, so it’s not like the frame has any give. On my #1 I’ve had maybe 1/2 dozen flats; it probably has 8k on it. Probably it’s just random chance, but I occasionally wonder about it.
@frank
I had no argument with you on the Anti-V moment — I was more interested in geeking out about Vaughters’ wine collection. Speaking of wine, you might need more than one drink to wait for me to come around on tire pressure.
@frank
That is an OUTRAGE!!!!!!! It’s called a mangina. And eventually you will stop riding your f’ing bikes at 120psi. FFS. And then the teary apologies to Nate and me. It may not be this season or this century, but it will be sweet.
@the Engine
“Could it be related to the tyre pressure/rough road combo with the new Carbone?”
Hell yes, your back is being vibrated, go down to 110psi and see how it feels. Better yet, your next set of tyres should be 25mm, ride ’em at 100psi or less. Then, my friend, you will be singing Danny Boy. Once you go 25, you will never have sex with white women again, or something like that.
OK guys I’ll run at 110psi tomorrow and see how it feels.
Just because I have no pain when I ride and the physio is happy should I be riding? That’s the next question and how much should I ride?
@Gianni
Wow. Just wow. But yes: hard to go back after switching to 25s. I haven’t even contemplated a thinner tire. Smooth-rolling 25s with latex tubes. Inflated at 100psi. I’m one smooth man. All these butter references leave me a little uneasy, though…
…or, trying again, I’m Baxter smooth even without the Baxter.
@the Engine
Riding shouldn’t hurt. Maybe there are larger fit problems, asymmetries? How much riding is determined by overall comfort and fitness. And why you ride in the first place. Riding likely isn’t fun if it’s a continual source of pain.
I’ve also forgotten what you’re riding; a lot of cyclists pick up the stiffest frame they can, when that stiffness (first buttery, now stiffness) frequently just translates into the body absorbing more shocks and vibrations. Good if you’re about all-out speed; not so much if you’re looking for a more comfortable ride.
@Gianni I agree with gianni.
and he’s reminded me of my favourite dirtbombs song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-gbkpauXs
@RedRanger
I run latex, in Schwable Utremo R1s. They feel great, grip well and I haven’t flatted so far (installed January). No idea what tubs feel like, but I did feel a discernable difference from the Conti Ultra Race (why “race” in a tyre soooo not for racing??) and butyl.
The roads here in Singapore are smooth as butter. Even when they do roadwork or tear up the road for construction they are careful to lay down smooth hotmix, sometimes weekly. Freaks me out after Australia where they’re happy to tear up the top layer and leave the road base exposed, sometimes for months, then just leave chunky chip seal for the car traffic to press down over time.
I had read that the Schwables cut up etc etc, but I don’t think I’ve got a single nick in them.
So – latex – I use ’em, but changed tyres at the same time. They feel good and I haven’t punctured in five months, but that could be the tyres or the roads or all three combined.
Benefits of particular kinds of tubes for different surfaces? Or is latex just smoother? I’ve been drawn more and more to a variety of dirt roads around here and love riding them. Not horrendous, single track stuff on a road bike, but gravel and unpaved.
Just in case it’s not clear, latex tubes are only worth fitting in the very best tyres – for cheaper or heavier tyres you won’t feel any benefit, and you won’t gain anything but expense and lack of ability to repair punctures on the side of the road.
Hey Oli, quick Q if you don’t mind,
I’ve got a pair of 28 hole rims and hope hubs, what lacing pattern do would you recommend? 2 cross up front for sure, 3 cross both sides on the back? I want them stiff cos I want to thrash the shit out of them, weight isn’t gonna be a concern.
I wanna build em myself as well, what tools do I need? Willa ghetto truing stand made out of the back end of an old bike be reliable enough?
Radial up front would be stiffer than 2 cross. At the back you could go 2 cross for added stiffness too, so long as your tensioning is sound. Otherwise 2 or 3 cross driveside/radial non-drive is a stiff wheel. Use Competition spokes or similar for added beef.
You can build a good wheel using an old frame no problem – checking the dish is as easy as flipping the wheel over. Run a string between the stays just below the rim to check up and down, and zip-ties for the side to side.
Late to the discussion but I’m with Brett on the merits of these tires – I’m onto my second pair and both have been devoted primarily to commuting duties and used on the pave for the Melburn Roobaix ride each year.
They are great tire – worth the extra expensive as they are pretty bulletproof and last longer than many others.
@Oli
Nipple lube, cheers Oli. I’ve still got the Ambrosios to build up too, this could be fun.
@Steampunk
That’s the point, riding doesn’t hurt at all – it’s walking and trying to sleep at night that are excruciating. The Ridley Damocles ISP arrived at the start of April and the geometry and fit is as near as we could manage the same as the alloy bike that it replaced – it feels fine. It feels more compliant that the bike it replaces but was designed for big people to ride the pave. Hence, we figured, it should work well here. Like I say I’ll try the less aggressive tyre set up and report back. I just want to be confident that just because cycling isn’t hurting it isn’t damaging me more.
Just gotta love tan sidewalls…
Sorry about the crap quality photo, looks better in my hallway
Funny, I need a new pair of work shoes, as the soles are so worn out, my socks are wearing out on the pavement – I thought, £50 for a new pair of shoes at least – stuff that, it’ll have to wait til next payday – then I look at my bike and think, you could do with a new pair of shoes too, even though your Vittorias are in fine nick, and I hit the buy it now button, pching, £65 spent…. priorities are a hard thing to quantify!
@the Engine
I have a crappy left L5/S1 disc, and find cycling actually has helped it – best thing is to ride gently, in a gear slightly too big, up an easy gradient hill, full weight on the bars, arms locked out, and only work on the upstroke – gives you a really good rotational traction on your lower back – the money you save on physios will get you a new set of Vittorias
He said buttery ass. Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh.
Nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube, nipple lube.
Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh.
@JIPM
A seth efriken of my former acquaintance used to use an an expression “His bum’s in the butter” or sometimes “He’s landed with his bum in the butter”.
I guess when you haven’t got sheep you have to find other entertainment.
Nipple lube is cool heh heh heh
@Dr C
Thanks – I’ll report back tomorrow…
@Oli
So, I went to the local tip shop to see if I could find an old frame to make into a wheelbuilding jig. Didn’t find one of those, but I did find a DMR trailstar for 20 bucks. Orange Marzo M1 Bombers, xt brakes, and a tacoed rear wheel. (sigh), N+1 means I’m now a mountain biker. Or a middle aged roadie who does mad hucks round town.
Haha! Love the tar, love the dirt, baby!
A status on my Rubino Pro Techs. The standard bike exam after the Festum Prophetae revealed a decent sized cut in the back wheel. I guess the good news is that it was a cut found later, not a puncture on the road. The bad news is that my route held no unusual road conditions. Maybe just bad luck, but I’m leaning toward the “nick too easily” crowd.
Is there a particular name in the Lexicon yet for a riding acquaintance who rides old shite tyres that need to be replaced and then flats two rides in a row? If not, we need one & someone more friendly with this dude needs to tell him to buy some new damn tires.
Standard fare though – he also rides old, threadbare, ugly as kit. Mtn shoes/pedals on his road bike as well. I’m pretty sure he’s one of these types who is working so hard to not comply with “the norm” and thus be cool that he actually comes off looking & flatting like a dumbfuck.
@the Engine
It worked – I was better after 160kms than I was before I started
@Anjin-san
I’d recommend you only use sealant when you’re sure it’s gonna work well and seal the puncture otherwise there’s really no point.Never use sealant just to get you home.Stans can cope with bigger cuts and punctures than Caffelatex but for me it’s too strong.I don’t like to use sealants at all and prefer to take off the punctured tube and put the spare on.If my current tube is almost worn out (75% of usage) and I happen to puncture I will use Caffelattex and if that doesn’t work then I’d use Stans.Basically you just try to seal the tubular and wear it out completely since it’s not worth to use thread and needle on it no more.
If you happen to puncture on a fairly new expensive tubular do not use sealant if you are not sure if it’s gonna work.Use a spare and send your tube to place like Tire Alert or similar and they will fix it for you with free return shipping.If you use sealant and it didn’t work I doubt they will accept it.
@Gianni
” Lower pressure=faster rolling, better cornering, more comfy”
That is absolute bollocks Gianni.If you can’t ride your race bike at a pressure above 100 PSI then I’d recommend different bicycle choice,touring bike perhaps .I just can’t believe that out of all tire choices out there you went for the worst option-tubeless.Since you’re not a newbie on a race bike I’m surprised you have to ride on such a low pressure to be comfortable.If you normally pump up to 80 PSI what pressure you had in France/Belgium?
@Dr C
Nice bike mate.Is your back problem the reason your saddle is pointing down more than usual?
@TommyTubolare
You know, I’d also submit that it could have a lot to do with you’re choice of tub. I was having this discussion w @gaswepass just last night. He was trying out some demo carbone tubs at our local Tuesday Night Worlds, and said he didn’t like the feel at all. Felt like every time he’s cornering they were “tippy” and like they were going to come out from under him. I thought that sounded weird, and asked what rubber they were running. Conti Sprinters. I had a set of those glued up on some Zipps in the past (came equipped with them, used). I hated the Conti’s right away. Switched to Vittorias and solved the problem. Ran the same pressure too BTW; 135psi.
I’m riding TUFO’s Race Elite 23mm in the rear, TT 19mm in the front. The front is a bit squirrely and will get changed soon. That said, they are smooth enough at the psi I run them at, that during the Cogal this weekend I kept “bounce checking” my rear tyre ’cause it felt too soft. It wasn’t. AND, I was really only out-decended by Frank (who’s bigger than me and goes downhill like a bowling ball on rails) on one hill. One which he is now currently in 2nd place on Strava. Or maybe I have mad bike handling skills. Fuck what do I know anyway. 80psi? For my beach cruiser maybe.
@TommyTubolare
Tried them at 120 and it was much better than 155 – feels different going down hill as I’m going faster (which is counter intuitive but the computer does not lie)
@scaler911
Thanks Scaler.80 PSI sounds good for a beach cruiser.
The reason Contis don’t feel the same is because all their tubulars use butyl inner tubes.Only Conti tubulars for Pro Racing Teams use latex.Use 15-20 PSI less in them comparing to Vittorias for more comfort.
I have to say though for daily riding they’re good and durable.For example I have Continental Sprinter Gatorskin mounted at the moment and the rear tub is worn out,white threads are visible all over and no puncture.I run the rear at 120 PSI and the front at 110 PSI.Perfect outcome for a tubular-glue it well,wear it out without puncture,take it off and glue the new one.
@the Engine
If you use clinchers then 150 PSI is too much.
@TommyTubolare
Agreed – my back has begun to heal with the lower pressures.
Broke a spoke 5kms in to my evening ride today and I suspect that had something to do with previously overpressuring my tyres too.
I live and learn, hat angles, tyre pressures and bar tape cleaning methods all in one day…
@Nate
Loved the observation that a puncture-prone rider hits ever pothole in his path. I’ve had only 2 punctures in 10 years, perhaps I’m due a load but consider this. 1) Even on 28mm tyres (Gatorskins mainly), I check the pressure on nearly every ride. 2) I used to be a motorcyclist/courier and learned to scan the road or expect death.
After moving to Texas, I had a flat (thorn) within 4 days. The roads are harsh and the cycle trails are harsher. Asking a local how often he had flats, and being told around 200 miles, I was shocked. However, apart from my early thorn incident, pumping up for every ride and taking care seems to be working at 1000 miles here.
For comfort, I aim for 88 rear, 84 front on 28mm and weigh 195 lbs.
Final update on my Rubino Pro Techs. Great on smooth roads but cut much too easily on chip seal and small debris. Generated too much doubt to continue with them. Trying the Veloflex Corsa 23s that I had waiting in the wings. Right thumb blistered from putting these on the rims. Tighter fit than new Contis.
Need a little PSI advice from the more experienced cyclists. I don’t trust the online calculators and 15% gobbledygook charts. What say you brotheren?
Me w/kit + Bike = 74kg.
PSI for Open Corsa 23’s w/latex on dry days?
PSI for Open Pave 24’s w/latex on dry days?
I’ve been running the Corsa’s at 90F/95R and I don’t pinch flat. I ride in mountainous terrain on well kept Japanese roads.
@bugleboy21
A bit late, but just saw this. I’m about your size and ride 100/100 in the corsa SC. The SC is so good, you don’t need to have pave AND the corsa. The SC covers it all. I don’t like a mushy feeling in the front tire when climbing or sprinting, so I keep it pretty high.
Say it ain’t so, I’m hearing the pave tub and open pave are discontinued? Any word? Some suggest the new Corsa is its replacement, but I’m intrigued if it has exactly the same puncture protection or not?
@Beers
First off, this is bad news if true.
Secondly, if true, it sounds like we need to all go in on a group purchase on FMB’s in order to get a discount!!! I’m sure that Frahnk can arrange it for us!
I was thinking the Corsa+ 28 was the replacement for the Paves, and I was lamenting the disappearance of the distinctive and hallowed green stripes. But it seems all is not yet final per the recent spotting some Vittoria prototypes.
I’m thinking the Veloflex Vlaanderen may be a good option for those of us who are tan sidewall tifosi and don’t really need an uberfat tub. I will also watch to see how the new Corsas come to market.