Saddle Up- Selle SMP
What does Selle SMP have in common with the lead up to the 2013 Tour de France? Absolutely nothing, seeing as possibly no riders are on them in the Tour. It’s a long three weeks of Tour ahead, let’s think about our own asses for a brief moment. As a disclaimer: this is not a Reverence article, yet, maybe after a few centuries and pavé parties it could be. I paid retail from a LBS for this and have no connection to SMP. I’m not even advocating anyone should get one, like I do advocate everyone owning Speedplay pedals. I am just shedding a little light on these unconventional and messed-up looking saddles.
Two years back I stared at one of these saddles on a bike whose owner was a big fella. The saddle was a thin slip of a thing, more space than saddle and it looked unridable. He made a lasting impression when he said it was great. Great? That looks highly uncomfortable, it was nearly devoid of padding and there just wasn’t much to sit on.
We all have our own limit for what we will put on our steeds but eventually a 160 km ride will sort out if form follows function. Those shoes may be the same ones Boonen wears but if they are killing your feet at 80 km, every time, they have to go.
And speaking of Specialized, they have a gizmo for measuring sit bones so one can get a good fitting saddle. I’ve owned two of their saddles and like them enough. Upon restarting long rides after my haitus this winter I re-remembered how much my lower back would hurt, especially on long climbing rides. Also while on haitus, also known as: my position must be wrong, I’ll never ride again, do I need insoles, how high should my saddle be, do I need wedges under my cleats…hell. I read up on Steve Hogg, fitting master, looking for salvation. Steve is an advocate of SMP saddles and makes the point we don’t sit on our sit bones unless on, gasp, a recumbent or bigger gasp, a Harley. Maui’s aforementioned LBS has a nice selection of test saddles, many SMPs in the mix. I went right for the Dynamic model, for my fat ass. It took at least a week before I could even figure out where to sit on it, it’s that different a design.
There are two great things about these saddles: they have a massive cut-out section in the front so nothing gets mashed and the curved profile means one is sitting on the bones forward of the sit bones. That means your hips rotate forward, your lower back can straighten and relax. Do you want to ride the phantom aero bars while staring at your reflection in store front windows, it’s much easier with a relaxed, flatter back and uncrushed bits. I’m using that technical/medical English term to cover everything “down there”.
In summary, if your lower back is fine and you have never experienced torchmen’s taint, keep doing what you are doing. Shoes and saddles fit differently for every body. Comfort and weird looks don’t come cheap. Mine cost $230 US with steel rails but it is made in Italy, so that is a wash. They do come in celeste green if one wants to ruin the look of their Bianchi. Since one is sitting differently on it, the initial set up takes longer. It’s much harder to figure out the correct saddle height with this new position. I do think they have come up with a well researched design, especially for us riders who aim to be cyclists for the long haul.
Nice balaced article Gianni. Have to say my Ariones are suiting me very well at the moment but when I win that Veloforma frame *cough “not fucking likely!” I may test one of those wierd wavy shaped saddles….or then again maybe I should just go the whole hog and put it on one of these!
Gianni, I’m curious – What Specialized saddle were you riding before the SMP? I currently have settled on a Romin and feel that it echoes the shape of the SMP that as you say rotates the hips forward and more easily gets you that flat back without requiring the COTHO-style arch forward. That said, my back still hurts like a motherfucker after a ride with more than a modest bit of climbing in it. How much of the comfort of the SMP do you attribute to the shape and how much to Grand Canyon-esque cutout? I’ve always been curious about these saddles (though I think aesthetically they are god awful – but as you said made in Italy so at least that’s something), but Its a pricey proposition should it not be my cup of tea. I’m willing to give them a shot though, since the Bont Vaypor article got me to try a pair which solved the issues I was having with my shoe setup.
@Deakus
That looks like a ghost bike someone rode a motorcycle with a sidecar straight though
Every time I see one of those saddles I think of Salvador Dali . . .
But you’re right Gianni, it doesn’t matter what pro endorses it or how light it is or what it looks like, if it kills your ass then it has to go.
@VeloVita
I have two of the Taupe (?) model. Real flat across and front to back. The Romin’s curve is getting close to the SMP idea but the SMP’s cutout is so giant you really can rotate forward. It has made a big difference in my lower back fatigue. it didn’t solve it completely but that more because I have to remember to straighten my back. My posture is shiet anyway.
I think the Dynamic’s curve and cutout make it work, both really, but that curve without the big cutout would not work. See if there is a dealer with some test saddles about.
A timely article, Gianni. I moved on to an SMP Glider a month ago on the advice of one of Steve Hogg’s associates. What a revelation it’s been. 5 hours in the saddle is far less tortuous and I’ve been able to walk like an upright human rather than hump backed ape the next day. They certainly aren’t to everyone’s taste or fit but there’s no looking back for me, plus the more I see it mounted on my bike, the funkier I think it looks.
@Gianni
Now that you can rotate forward, drop your bars and your back will stop hurting!
Fuck, thats an ugly saddle. It does make some sense though. Thank Merckx I’m comfortable on mine, and I’m too stubborn to try one of those anyway.
Da Taint! In the Fotheringham book on The Prophet they were talking about Eddy’s issues with a cyst in 1974 (I think) and it was referred to as his crutch. Ha, I think this is the most elegant term I’ve encounter for that area, far better than taint, nacho, or bummock.
Yup, those long rides really do sort things out. Here, here for function over form, though a nice balance is preferred. Before I really started riding a lot I used to think, “A centimeter? Who cares! No way can you tell the difference.” I think we all know you sure as hell can. I think my Voler bibs with a thin pad, (that cost 1/3 the price) work better for me than Assos Uno FI bibs with a thick pad. Hate to admit the Rolls Royce of bib shorts (well, this model ain’t their top dog, but) don’t really work for me, but I always get soreness on one side of the crutch area and a few hours in I’m constantly tugging and maneuvering them around to find peace.
I have some different saddles on different bikes, but the older Selle Italia Flites seem to work the best for me. Doesn’t hurt that I think they have a classic-yet-modern shape.
Yes, can we not pause and think about our asses for a moment before the 100th kicks off?
@frank
That is an ugly perch but if it rubs the ‘taint the right way, so be it. I’m on my second Specialized Toupe and it is never an issue. And it doesn’t look like Gerard Depardieu!
They are the best. By a country fucking mile. The only people who bag them are those who havent tried them.
@Ron I have always preferred the term “grundle” myself.
Serious question about back pain: Tough for me to be a good judge because I fractured three vertebrae in my lumbar region as a small child, and as a result they’re all one calcified piece. I’m four Inches shorter than my two brothers, and as I’ve aged, my back has become progressively less flexible.
While riding, I find myself standing on the pedals and pushing my hips forward to stretch my lower back quite a lot. Inevitably, this begins at around 16K, and the frequency of this requirement increases with each passing hour. Climbing doesn’t seem to aggravate it any more than riding on the flat.
While I am certain that I could eliviate some of this pain through a regimen of core strengthening exercise, I can’t stand planking, sit-ups, etc.
Does everyone suffer from similar stiffness, or is mine more pronounced?
I have nothing to say about SMPs, but having put a fizik seatpin in my new custom, I will say that it is a fantastic design.
Been riding hard since 1975. These are the saddles I rode for more that a year: Cool Gear Ti, Unicator #3, San Marco Rolls, Avocet Mod III’s, Sella Italia TurboMatic, Sella Italia Flite and San Marco Regal. And I tried dozens of others. My favorite saddle of all time was the Turbomatic. This is what I ride today.
@Spun Up
What you’re describing sounds like my old pain. I think we asume the flexibility is coming from our backs, but really its the hamstrings and hip flexors that need to be nice and flexible.
It sounds like your back is doing a lot of balancing which is causing the pain, and the answer to that could be a longer stem (more reach) or lower bars. It can’t hurt to try; an LBS or friend could have a stem laying around and bars can (usually) be lowered easily enough. For a test ride or two, go extreme to see how the effect is on your back – add two cm to the stem and drop the bars by at least the same amount.
I stress that this extreme recommendation is not for the long-term; for a long-term adjustment you will want to move gradually with .5 to 1cm adjustments. I’m suggesting an extreme change for one ride or maybe two just to see if it helps or makes things worse.
As for strengthening your core, a little work can go a long way, and once you’ve done some basics you don’t need to do much to keep it strong enough for riding (its not like we’re alpine ski racers or something).
I did a spell of situps and planks etc to get the basics up, but then have really just resorted to once a week doing three sets of 50 leg lifts where I lay on my back and left the legs to 90 degrees and lowering them back down to a few centimeters off the ground. Keeping your feet shoulder-width apart makes it harder! Also, I finish each set with holding them just above the ground for about 10 seconds.
I do this while watching TV before bed and I hardly even know its happening.
@Mike_P
Cool, glad to hear you are a user. I don’t think there is any turning back for me either. Now I have to find a second one for the other bike. And don’t tell anyone but I am liking my saddle’s look too! It’s nuts.
@Nate
One of the things I’m most psyched about the new frame (which I should have Friday) is that I’ll be using the Fizik seat pin on it. By far the best design I’ve seen. It makes me hate every other seatpost.
@SloKenny
You have something growing under that saddle.
The Regal and Rolls were my all-time favorites back in the day, but I love the flatness of the Arione and the amount of adjustment on those long rails. I have a Rolls on my steel and the setback on the saddle is like a 1/4 of that on the newer saddles.
@Gianni
Be a man and post up a picture of your bike with that giant wart of a saddle on it.
@SloKenny
Ha! That is quite a list. I bought my Peugeot in 76 and went Brooks, Avocet, Concor (the worst), Selle something with the big silver rivets, a green Fizik, (also bad but I liked the color), Sella Italia Flite, some Specialized taupes, and now the SMP. I’m sure to have forgotten a few. I had forgotten about Avocet until you reminded me.
@frank
Is it custom? The 400mm can’t possibly be long enough.
@Nate
Hardy har har har.
Check out the sweet paint design. Those of you paying attention to the VSP will note the similarity. These will actually be available for sale later this month or next month (The V-Lion is only an option if you’ve been on KT.)
@Gianni
I always thought the Avocet was a Turbo rip-off. Oh, I forgot about the Turbo. I loved the double lump on the saddle by the railes, and the Pro’s saddles got so fucking gleaming because they used real leather and put lotions on there and shit to keep the leather in good condition. Man, I loved those.
I put armor-all on my saddles for the longest time. Partly to make them gleam and partly to make them appropriately slippy. I’ve always believed in the goodness of a slippy saddle to reduce saddle sores and make it easier to slide forward and back on the saddle.
Good one Gianni. As you say, everyone’s arse is different.
Nice to see a shout out for Steve Hogg at Pedal Pusher’s. He/they used to be my LBS until we moved house and he moved shop from Randwick several years ago. He is a genius when it comes to bike fit and can knock up a sweet set of wheels as well as a little side hobby. Very knowledgeable bloke and highly recommended.
@Ron Let’s not forget “scranus.”
@Gianni
Yes, timely and the appraisal is much appreciated. I had my fit last week and the saddle went up another cm or so. Guy said I had the longest legs he’s ever fitted (89 cm bb to saddle top), but he must not get out much. The good news is that I have a short torso, so a stock frame is not out of the question.
ANYWAY, I mention that because now I feel like I can rotate forward and no longer feel so folded in half trying to get low on the hoods or drops. The downside is rolling forward onto the perineum and it has me thinking of new saddles (current is an fizik Alliante)
Love the seat pin. It’s a must for a new frame.
Guy with long legs:
@frank ” I did a spell of situps and planks etc to get the basics up, but then have really just resorted to once a week doing three sets of 50 leg lifts where I lay on my back and left the legs to 90 degrees and lowering them back down to a few centimeters off the ground. Keeping your feet shoulder-width apart makes it harder! Also, I finish each set with holding them just above the ground for about 10 seconds.”
I assume you are keeping legs straight throughout ? I too have “lazy” core muscles that refuse to hold my back straight, may also help with my herniated disk at C7.
@xyxax
Baboom. Put your perineum (aka Bits) worries away. These could be a good solution and worthy of a test saddle somewhere. There are basically only two or three shapes and then three levels of padding, from none to too much. Can’t wait for more frame news.
@Barracuda
Try a V minute plank, we can all find V minutes right? Minute 4-5 is an absolute killer! Enjoy.
Gianni, big yes to all you write about saddles, I am currently happy with Specialized but will remember the SMP for when it needs replacing. What ever the shape and profile there seems to me to be no need for anything in the middle any more… As you say the bits are happier! and you know my veiws on padding (it’s like badges).
I do wish you had included diagrams on pelvic rotation and why that makes for a happier back. Mine is currently maxed out from moving but feels better when I get to ride for an hour or two.
Here’s to many future happy hours in the saddle!
Oh, my favorite saddle was a plastic BMX kiddies thing I would put on for Mt. Washington cause it was so light.
@frank is the Veloforma for the road, TT’s, or hill climbs? It looks sick!
@Nate & @frank:
Hearty endorsement of the Fizik Cyrano here. I’ve been loving me that seatpost since last year. Stunning piece of work. And I hate to rain on the limp saddle parade, but I have to ask about the aesthetics of matching a Fizik seatpost with a Selle saddle? I’m becoming increasingly particular about this sort of thing…
@xyxax
1. 89cm: that’s, like 3/4 the height of my wife!
2. Just had a fit myself. Neat experience with the ReTul get-up. Kind of cool having numbers flash up on just about everything. My legs aren’t that long.
3. My current saddle is the Aliante as well. But I’m shifting to the Antares. It turns out I’m a good bit more flexible than I thought, and I do tend to move around on the bike a bit (and fit the chameleon mould more than I would have imagined). This wasn’t a part of the bike fit, but more an independent decision, which probably won’t hurt (other than in the wallet).
@frank
You took the bait — if I didn’t say it someone else surely would have.
Hawt.
Those 2 ridges were torture devices. Never ride one of those fuckers again. On ariones now, but thinking about the center channeled one since averting fitted last week and experiencing a crushed taint. Turns ou not all chamois created equal.
I have to say,and @Gianni said it in the article (excellent as always), saddles and shoes are very personal. What works for me, may not work for you, and that’s OK. My favorite, and I’ve tried more than a few, is the Avocet O2 Air (with Ti rails). The fi’zi:k I’m on now is a very close second: ass hatchet as a couple friends refer to it.
Chronic back pain is a different pain than what we administer to ourselves in search of the V. If this monstrosity helps with that, Merckx bless you. I’m glad it’s not me.
I will have something to say if I see one of these mounted on your Cervelo.
@frank
I’ve been working my way in that direction. I’m down to one 5mm spacer, but to compensate I’m riding a little chode of a stem (90mm, Oh, the shame!). When I first dropped the bars, my hands seemed to be falling, naturally, about an inch short of the hoods, so I swapped to a shorter stem to get balanced. Need a little Viagra for my stem, apparently.
Was all over Selle Italia, until I discovered the Specialized Romin, Riding faster and longer than ever before. (Least thats what she said!)
@Barracuda
Boom!
@Gianni
Good work Gianni. Respect that you’ve found what works in spite of the ugly step-sister-ness of it.
Question is, when is Marko going to review the Adamo that he secretly has on his Graveur?
Hmmm. I’m on an Antares at the moment. Don’t hate it, don’t love it. Gotta move around and get my taint in the air periodically, but not experiencing any of the whiskey-dick nonsense I did sometimes in the distant past.
However, living in the Howling Wilderness as I do, I really would love to know of any good saddle demo programs accessible online.
Just got the Dynamic test saddle from local LBS. Have already tried Glider, Lite 209 and Stratos. I am impressed so far with the forward hip rotation, thus enabling a flatter back. I like the look of the Dynamic, technically speaking and will report back soon.
@Rob
I’ve tried to find a good graphic for that but nothing great. Look at the Steve Hogg link in the article, he does a good job of describing it. Essentially, on a SMP the sit bones are back on the rear slope of the saddle. So the pelvis falls forward and down until the weight is supported by the bones forward of the sit bones. FFS, that is a shiet description.
Read this instead.
@Marcus
And Marcus agrees so I am right. Fuck yeah!
@frank
@Frank – you may think it’s ugly, but it’s nowhere near as ugly as my fat ass that’s sitting on it.
@frank
That’s stunning, it’s a shame that I was unable to sell my soul to the devil and had to buy Mrs Chris a new a new kitchen instead to secure the necessary approval to attend the KT. I doubt I’ll ever buy another bike again. Maybe repainting the current stead is an option.
I’m new to this road bashin crack,( being a mountain biker in the lake district, UK ) BUT ! Agree with The Rules and currently looking to purchase a racing snake of a bike to join in with some mile munchin mates I’ve got, surely aesthetics matter BUT, the seat will be hidden a good majority of the time and only visible whilst initiating rule “V” and if said saddle enables great results then whilst visible on après ride cafe / boozer events, one can claim greatness and declare fore ridden results then the true form and function make it aesthetically compliant?
Yeah, I’ve got one on ma specialized hard tail and a fi’zi:k gobi on my lapierre zesty 514. Bit weird going between bikes and does get some getting used to!
Just my opinion that’s all.
I was on an Arione, but after being numb in my man giblets for 24 hours after a 200km ride, I knew I needed to change. The real clincher came when I saw a photo of myself in the drops with an almighty Pharmyesque hump.
One wee bit of advice for those making the switch to SMP – take care of your hammies as you adjust to your new riding position. I didn’t realise how much of a difference the hip rotation would make to my magnificent stroke, and wound up having to pay a few visits to the physio.
Ugh, SMP? What next, Adamo saddles? There should be a rule against these.
God bless Fizik. Next bike gets a Selle Italia SLR, though.
@ten B The problem with numbness and Arione may have been the saddle width. Try Antares if you are willing. I eventually found perfection with the latest Selle Italia Flite at 145mm.
I live in a spot where the only flat ground is the three meters at the bottom and top of steep grades, and my lower back pain goes away once I have the saddle angle right. As far as I can tell, the lower back suffers from using strength to keep from sliding off the back of the saddle while climbing. The angle needs to be pointed a degree or two lower than the rules recommend, but it works. The SMP might be using this effect with the “hook” at the rear. The WTB on my mountain bike seems to work this way.
Been riding an SMP since ’06 or ’07 after going through several saddles – including a Toupe’. Nothing better than my Strike! And if your lady friend has an ample share of crushable delicacy, a lady SMP is the only way to go.
Gianni, I bet if you shorten your stem by 5 or 10 mm (don’t go higher, go narrower in your reach) your back problems may gain additional relief.
Cheers!
@Gianni
Same here – curse of the tall folks. Thanks for the info, I’ll definitely see if there is a dealer in my area.
@tessar
Strong work, Pedalwan.
@Barracuda
Yes, straightish anyway.
@Steampunk
I suggest matching that SMP to the rubbish bin.