Test Drive Dummies
Everyone knows it’s a great idea to change out pieces of equipment the day before a group ride, especially an honorary Ronde van Vlaanderen Cogal involving steep, cobblestone climbs. There is obviously also no need to test-ride the equipment after making said change.
I remark at this point that it is rather unexpected to find an 11 speed chain inside a box labeled as being 10 speed. I also note that an 11 speed chain is not obviously narrower than its 10 speed counterpart. Once installed, it even seems to operate normally, happily jumping from one cog to the next, up and down the cassette, as you click away at it on the work stand. It gives the strong impression of being a happy chain.
This is a ruse. It is not a happy chain. In fact, it is a borderline malicious chain; it lulls the rider into a false sense of security, right until the moment that enough pressure is applied to the pedals, at which point the chain will rudely skip. The amount of pressure required to make the chain skip is dependent upon in which gear you are riding; some skip easily, some (seemingly) not at all. The ones that seemed like they didn’t skip at all were the two lowest gears. Comforting, knowing the steep cobbled climbs that were to be gobbled up towards the end of the ride, where they would be most instrumental.
As it turns out, the amount of pressure required to skip the chain is the amount applied at roughly 20% and the rider has risen out of the saddle in search of extra power. This came as quite a surprise to me, the rider, and also to those riding behind me, who used words like “ejected” and “like you hit an invisible car” to describe what they saw.
So, I can make with certainty the following observation: a 10 speed chain and 11 speed chain might not have any outward trappings of distinction between them but they are indeed very different. This difference manifests itself by one functioning as expected and the other having the capacity to eject a rider when combined with a 10 speed drivetrain. It all seems very obvious, but that doesn’t make it less true.*
There are many other examples of this I’m sure; I remember having quite a job of properly connecting my Cinelli stem to my Scott Drop-In handlebars because the diameters did not quite match. That one also resulted in some high speed handling anomalies.
There are two morals to this story. First, it matters whether your equipment is interoperable. Second, if you make a change to your gear before a big ride, for the love of Merckx, take it on a test drive.
*As it turns out, it does in fact make it less true; this should function flawlessly but it was a worn(ish) cassette that held the secret to the bikes newly discovered ejection function.
Unfortunately the entire premise of this article is flawed; there is absolutely no issue with using an 11sp chain on a 10sp drivetrain whatsoever.
If the chain skipped under load it’s because a cog/some cogs are worn enough that they won’t mesh with a new chain, or perhaps the 11sp chain mysteriously in the 10sp box is actually a discarded worn chain.
And I previously thought tuning (or, as I found out, untuning) my front derailleur the night before a ride and then not testing it was bad. That involved quite a bit of climbing the next morning without any ability to access the little ring. Only through meditation on Rule #90 did I find true salvation through my suffering.
That said, I stopped by my LBS on the way home and they did exactly five seconds of witchcraft and it was absolutely perfect and silent again.
Well done, Frank.
As long as you weren’t injured, I might say that witnessing this would have made the (second of the weekend) six-hour round-trip on Sunday well worth it.
@Oli
Well that’s disappointing.
I will, however push back to say the premise of the story is “don’t be a dumbass and change your gear out the day before a ride and if you are that dumb, at least be smart enough to test it.” The chain was just the anecdote to bring the point home.
@frank
That of course is sound advice, but widely publicised misinformation about chain compatibility certainly isn’t helpful.
Also, it’s “ruse” not rouse.
To clarify, using a chain wider than specified isn’t good – i.e. using a 10sp chain on an 11sp drivetrain – but using a narrower chain (11sp chain on 10sp cogs, 10sp on 9sp, etc., etc.) isn’t a problem.
@Oli
@Oli
@Oli
Jesus Oli, who took a dump in your coffee???
(insert smiley-face emoticon here, Mate)
@Buck Rogers
I know, right?
@frank
I’m impressed you found a photo that almost exactly matches what I witnessed when your chain and cogs decided hit the eject button. Its one thing to ride up worn cobbles after over 100km, but going further to get an up close inspection and taste test, that’s what Hardmen are made of. Glad the only injury was to your pride. Great ride. Thanks.
Sounds like quite the mishap @frank. I hope you worked out that Gremlin. One must keep the rubber side down at all times or risk a few lost teeth.
My Campy chains have 11’s or 10’s marked all over the plates.
@Buck Rogers
I’m perfectly cheerful, but just don’t like bullshit masquerading as fact! My comment will disappear in the queue but the article will remain telling people something that could affect choice and is plain wrong. Sorry if it comes across badly but I can’t not say anything.
@frank maybe the person who put up the direction sign in the title photo was working on the ” chain gang” the day the offending equipment was produced ?
That erection is the saddest thing i’ve seen in a while.
I had a new chain skip badly on steep climbs, but it was on the single speed MTB running a fast-wearing aluminum cog. The incident didn’t make me snarky though. JK. Not about the skipping cog though. Actually happened, got switched out before next ride, and eventually replaced with steel.
@Kevin Smith
Cobble taste test – yes that’s what I’m going to call it from now on. So much better than “endo.” Funniest thing I’ve read in a while. Almost choked on food.
So this weekend was a big optimum race weekend here.
So as I put on my race wheel I thought I’d throw on a new chain as well.
The next morning I load my bike and went off to race the crit.
I begin to warm up get out of my saddle to throw down a little power CRACK BANG.
People were scared and thought my frame broke.
A hanious chain skip.after I messed with it the the super pro bike mechanic messed with it he said it must be the chain. Both ten speed one just older, but not that old.
do I drove home grabbed the old chain put it on.
Scared as hell I throw the hammer down.1300 watts. No skip. No more issues.
older rings and cassette like orders chains
looks like it’s time for and expensive drivetrain upgrade.
There are several issues at hand here. I’ll skip the pretense of putting my comments together in anything resembling thoughtful approach, and just hack at it.
1. I was kinda surprised when I didn’t see “Don’t install a new part the night before a race” included the first edition of the rules published. Then I thought it must be because this is so fucking common sense (and common knowledge) there was really no need to codify that particular Rule. Obviously I was wrong. When this is included in the next set of amended rules, please be sure to point out this also applies to mounting new tubs.
2. Chains and cogs wear together, as illustrated by @Gerhardt’s account. If you change out back wheels fairly often, you’ll likely be able to run through several chains before the cogs show enough wear to affect performance. But if you’re an Earthling and you have only one wheelset per bike, you will need to change your chains and cassettes together. Chainrings not so much, but eventually that shit wears out too, in which case, good on ya!
3. Installing Scott Drop-Ins in the wrong sized stem is not apropos of this topic. Please address this silly shit separately.
4. I think we can all excuse @frank for this particular indiscretion. Once. It should be clear to all when I explain it this way: Normal human beings would realize “my chain is shitty” long before a cogal, or they would acknowledge it will need a change eventually, but not quite yet. It’s one hell of a coincidence that, the night before a cogal, one’s chain is suddenly longer than it used to be and it needs to be replaced. But that’s for a normal human being. In @frank‘s case, it is just as ordinary to think “I ought to change that chain” as it is to think “It’s not overcast today and the way the light catches my coat means I’ll have to wear this Brioni 7 fold today instead; so, naturally, I’ll go with these finished tan brogues instead of the rough-side-out chukkas. Duh.”
5. @oli is a grumpy fucker today.
Rule #96?
@litvi
Took me a whole lot of googling to discover you were not talking about cycling here.
@litvi
Why does everyone think I’m grumpy for pointing this out? I’m not, it just didn’t occur to me to think of a humorous way to say what I wanted to say! I’m a bike mechanic so when I see utter crap being said I can’t help but point it out.
Also, spelling.
And happy, see?
@litvi
pretty much sums it up really, oh, and did I mention the sign in the title picture ? Because that’s a shit sign.
@Oli
Did you turn around and ask those people behind you if their bikes were broken ?
Any time i fit a new chain without changing the cassette I’m really tentative first time out as I load it up wondering whether the cassette may have bridged that critical wear point when it will skip with a new chain.
Worth noting too that the new chain will wear (stretch) faster on an old cassette as it nears the point when it won’t wear it at all. If you see what I mean.
And vice versa for that matter.
@Oli
Taken just after flaming Frank = Happy.
We love it really Oli. You’re the poor Velominati’s Jobst Brandt.
My Cycling Sensei said – “change chain, change cassette”. It’s true!
Last time I changed chain/cassette I bought an Ultegra cassette as I was advised they lasted longer.
When my chain was ready to replace, the cassette also ended up needing replacing (skipping on a couple of cogs with the new chain). False economy?
@RobSandy
I have found that a good chain and good cassette last longer but a cheap chain / good cassette is a false economy (or vice versa). Whether a cassette / chain at twice the price (say) lasts twice as long would be hard to prove. Plus it’s not just about durability but shifting efficiency tends to improve with price. Though again, when that is noticeable is subjective.
In the end we are slaves to our vanity and the marketing blurb!
@Teocalli
I can tell the difference in shifting between the Ultegra cassette I did have and the Tiagra cassette I’ve put on my turbo wheel (it’s a £12 experiment, we’ll see how it goes), but I’m not so convinced I’d tell the difference between the 105 cassettes I usually use and either the Tiagra or the Ultegra.
The reason the Ultegra cassette died may have been that I pushed the chain just that bit far before I replaced it. But I was surprised how quickly it wore out, but then I ride in all sorts of shit weather and do a fair amount of sprinting/hard intervals/steep hills, all of which are hard work on a chain.
@KogaLover
Haha! Same here!
I bow to the superior knowledge of everybody, of course – and I’m especially appreciative of what @Gerhardt has to say on the matter (in #17): “looks like it’s time for and expensive drivetrain upgrade”.
Stay tuned for an upgrade (from Tiagra to 105) on my trusty 2013 Defy 1. (I’m just thinking wishfully here, to be honest; don’t hold your breath…)
@BacklashJack
I also applied limited derailleur tuning skills to my #2. Everything seemed tickety boo in the work stand and it wan’t until last night when I set off into the pain cave known as the 2 x 20 Interval looking for some sort of form ahead of Saturday’s Chiltern Cogal that I realised that 53 x 23 was too much and I needed a gear that started with 39.
I think I only got away with it as the battery in my HRM had also decided to give up and helpfully didn’t give me any indication of how horrible things were getting. I was left with nothing left to do but try to let my mind wander off to my happy place and keep turning at 100 rpm.
The components aren’t deceitful or malicious, it’s the work stand.
Slightly off topic, and I’m sure @Oli will blast me for this but a mate lent me his ultrasonic parts cleaner and it makes chains and cassettes so very nice and shiny…
@Oli
Ha! Perfetto! You know we all love and revere you, Oli!!!
I just had to give you a bit o’shite as you posted four of the first seven comments and each one of them seemed to come across as the old man yelling at the kids to get the feck off his lawn!
(That’s why I wrote out the smiley emoticon, to let you know I was just ribbing you!)
Super photo you posted here as well. I’d say that you won the Cycling-World-Championships-That-Really -Matter yesterday, i.e. s/he who has the most fun on the bike, wins!
@chris
I’ve looked at those a few times as Maplin does a reasonably priced one. Anyone any views/experience on the “home use” types?
Not sure why @oli would blast you as they seem to be essential bits of LBS kit.
@chris
Not at all! A clean drivetrain is a happy drivetrain, so (as far as I’m aware) you’re not talking bullshit. I like to think I’m harsh but fair. *passive/aggressive smiley-face emoji*
@Teocalli
The one I’ve got looks a it like this although the label has worn away and it looks a bit knackered. No idea where it comes from or how much it cost.
@Oli
I’d, maybe unfairly, assumed it wouldn’t pass muster on account of it being a solvent based cleaning process that would strip the factory grease out of the rollers. It’s a criticism I’ve read of immersing chains in solvent before.
Nice to know it gets your seal of approval.
@chris
Wow that’s very small……
Hmm… One would think that of all people, cyclists should know not to make any major upgrades/changes to their gear, other than the regular maintenance. At least runners know that (not that I am much of a runner, for that matter). What works for you in training, don’t change it in the race day. Never.
the only way to know if its going to fail isn’t is some gingerly pedaling gravy smothered test ride. its by laying down the hammer and taking the chance that you’ll end up on the ground bleeding and swearing.
I test all my stuff on the turbo, but its never till the big ride that all the kinks show up. and every click, skip, and slip is a lesson in how terrible a home mechanic i am, and yet every lesson somehow makes me a better mechanic. adhering to the principle of silence is a voodoo act of right amount of cable tension, right amount of chain lube, and a whole heaping lot of fairy magic
@Teocalli
Size isn’t everything…
I rode in an insane rain storm on Saturday. Immediately put the bike in my outdoor stand and gave it a full scrub and rinse. Nothing better than to end a ride like that and immediately put things back in order.
Oli – just to clarify. I have Campa 8-s on my Tommasini. Those chains are not easy to find these days. Should a 9 or 10 s work?
All this dialogue among Velominati, and not one has identified the rider in the lead photo? That must be a first. I honestly have no idea, but part of me thinks, “Saxo Bank rider, attempting to ride cobbles and failing horribly…must be a Schleck”.
@Barracuda
Really? Everyone is really gonna let this go with no comments?
@Oli
I didn’t take your comments to be grumpy.
@TheVid
Gustav Larsson 2010 training ride – following a little inter web digging.
Schleck was a different jersey (and event)…http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/frank-schleck-talks-about-his-crash-on-the-cobbles/
Gotta love this that I came across….
@Oli
Good lad! Thanks for clearing that up immediately. Stand tall, take no shit.
@chris
So how does that puppy work? Do you put some kind of solvent in it? It must be a high quality product because it says so right on the front!
Apropos of this thread, I never experiment before anything over a century or away from home. Even before a century I check everything over and make sure the machine is clean and ready to roll.