Can I Nod Snob a Kid?
I am a nod snob. The fact is, I’m a bit of a cycling snob all-around. I am not a “biker” and I do not “like to bike”. I am a cyclist and I like to ride. What’s more, as I outlined before, there are very loosely defined parameters under which I will bestow a “nod” upon another rider. For example, you have to look cool. Like you care how you look. This doesn’t mean you have to be riding a glitzy carbon ride or some nostalgic steel classic, but you have to demonstrate that you understand Cycling Couture, ambiguously defined as it may be.
For those riders who receive said nod, there are a few unwritten rules about reciprocation. First, you have to decide whether to acknowledge the nod. Second, you should never acknowledge the nod too enthusiastically; always keep your cool and never get too excited.
The “Nod Acknowledgment” is almost more complicated than the “Nod”. First, you have to decide if you’re willing to accept the nod, ignore it, or reprimand them for even trying. More often than not, you ignore. But, if you acknowledge, Nod Snob terms dictate that you must never, under any circumstances show more enthusiasm than the original nod given. Let me give you an example of a flubbed Nod Reciprocation.
Michelle and I were riding home from a long ride out at Cougar Mountain near Seattle. It was a hot day, and we were tired after the more than 150km we’d logged already as we left Bellevue and headed back to Seattle. A rider – worthy of a nod – came by in the opposite direction and gave me a quick nod. A few moments later, Michelle pulled up alongside me with a horrified look in her eyes. “I saw him nod at you, and then he nodded at me. I completely lost my nerve, and, *sigh*, took my hand off the bar, smiled broadly and waved.”
Classic example of reciprocating with more enthusiasm than the original nod. Very uncool.
The other day, Michelle and I were coming home from our after-work spin, enjoying the hum of our wheels on the pavement and basking in the mellow satisfaction you find after a good ride. Coming the other direction was a dad riding a mountain bike with his young son in-tow on a Trail-a-Bike. The son seemed absolutely overjoyed at the scenario, and we could feel his delight before we could even see him. There was a sense of triumph about him. I’m not exactly sure why he felt so good about himself because he obviously didn’t meet any of the qualities of being a cyclist. I mean, when was the last time you saw a pro on a Trail-a-Bike? Besides, pro’s don’t wear jeans, and they don’t wear white helmets that look like hollowed-out bowling balls.
As we rolled into his view, he cheerily hollered, “HI BIKERS!”
My instinct was to correct him and say, “Bikers use motors, asshole. We’re cyclists.”
Instead, Michelle and I replied in chorus, “Hi!” I still feel a little guilty about that.
I dunno dude. I commend you on owning your snobbery but my take is that we’re all on the cycling spectrum and thus share the joy of riding on two-wheels. Sure I’m riding a full carbon, sub 18 pound, Italian bike I just paid 3k for but for me, the fact of the matter is, I get much of the same joy from it as I did from my first Huffy with butterfly handlebars. You know, the one I learned to ride on and my big trick was standing on the seat and popping wheelies. When I see some little kid on a trail bike, some middle-ager on a comfort bike, or some old drunk riding his daughter’s mountain bike to work because he just got his 4th DUI, I smile and wave and hope they share some of the stoke that comes from riding a bike. (okay, so maybe not the old drunk). I wish more people would ride.
Yo!
I have to say I am with Marko. In fact we sort of rub the snub guys ourselves. This is a great theme that Charlie Farrow points out regularly on his blog.
http://cpfarrow.blogspot.com/2009/08/mean-people-snub-others.html
If they are on two wheels, they are not in a car and that means that they can relate somewhat, who knows maybe its a midwestern thing, but certainly I am not to cool for school to say hi to another cyclist.
Hansi Johnson?
Yo.
Funny. It’s Mark Carlson from back in the MWM days, currently up at VCC in Ely. Nice to see you on here.
Awesome! Yeah good to see you too! Must be getting nice in Ely right now!
@Marko
@Hansi
You are both right, of course, and – all joking aside – I’m very glad you voiced your opinion on this site.
I think it’s important to note that this post isn’t about appreciation; I appreciate anyone on a bike – I even appreciate that the popularization of fixies has gotten more people out on their bikes. This post is about taking a critical – if humorous – look at the micro-environment of cycling.
Anyone who ventures out on a bicycle shares a basic interest with every other person on a bike: a desire to get out and power your own two-wheeled vehicle. Whether you’re 85, 35, or 5; laying on your back, riding in a saddle, or in the Egg position, we are all part of one social group: people who love to ride bikes. Beyond that, we seft-select into groups we identify with – or, indeed, groups we’d like to identify with. There are people out there who can hop along a railing on their front wheel, do a complete 360 and land on a parking post with their back wheel before hopping to the sidewalk. While this is pretty impressive, I don’t self-select with them and don’t have any tangible aspiration to. Then, there are pros. I don’t self-select with them, either, but there is definitely a part of my phsyche that would like to; in truth, they would Nod Snob me.
This post is about the micro-environment of the cycling world. There is an inevitable hierarchy amongst social groups; even dogs – who cannot possibly judge one another – work within a complex social hierarchy. The fact is, a guy on a recumbent is going to self-select more strongly with another rider on a recumbent. When I see a fit dude with shaved legs out at the Farmer’s Market, I immediately recognize him as another cyclist who values being a cyclist more than fitting into traditional social norms. When you boil away all the jokes and sarcasm, what remains is the fact that when I’m out on my bike, I self-select with – and nod – riders whom I feel reflect my perception of myself – or whomever I, as a cyclist, aspire to be.
I ride several different bikes, each gets its own tribal nod .. Ha its cute !
I only have two helmets though!! not cool :)
@FreditorI too cross a few lines with my bikes (some would say that is an understatement) and one of them, my fixed folding travel bike is confusing for all, so the nods are slow in coming. On the other hand I do not care who rides what, we are all out there jousting with 5000 lbs Minotaurs and I nod to all.
Its like on the BMW motor cycle I still give the salute to Harleys even though I hate them (and probably hate the guy riding them but I’ll never know), they are there facing the same shit.
On the other hand I envy Franks absolute adherence to all the Rules so that he can be secure in being a “snod”, I on the other hand have no confidence in my appearance so will continue to wave at all – and I hate to admit – even a recumbent.
@Rob, @Freditor
I won’t wave at, nod, or in any other way acknowledge a recumbent. No way, that crosses a line. Everyone else gets an evaluation, but if you’re laying down while riding a bike, I’m slamming the proverbial door on you. There is a guy around here who rolls in a particularly egregious implementation of said device, and I’m working on a strategy to fein interest in his contraption so I can snap a picture of it.
Stay tuned for that.
@frank I hear you loud and clear on that one but I am a pussy and think about how the poor slobs are so warped by some devil that they can not see the truth and I feel sorry for them.
I’m not sure you should post that image… it’s, just… well – it would be AWFUL!
The nod for me is a thing of evolution. When I started riding and then racing about 16 years ago, there were very few of us on the road (at least here in Seattle). If you were on the common training routes pretty much everyone got the nod because you were all “pro”. Nowadays its a mixed bag. There are way more “cyclists” and even more “bikers” on those same routes. And generally you have about 5 seconds to scan someone for worthiness and decide to nod. If you’re in team kit, then that pretty much guarantees the nod. Everyone else I just ignore and nod only when nodded too. Shit, I’m not even on a team right now so I don’t even have kit to flaunt. I get ignored half the time too. There was a time when you couldn’t even join a team until you were a Cat 3 (mostly out of elitism). Now if you check the results lists, a majority of the Cat4/5 field are on teams.
At this point I think the nod is generally antiquated. Like I hinted at the beginning, it existed because we were a small brotherhood. Nowadays, frankly, we’re a dime a dozen.
@frank
We all take away different things. I am pretty new to “serious” cycling, and I can’t imagine not acknowledging an enthusiastic little kid on a trailer bike who blurts out a greeting to me, anyway. That might make a lasting impression in his mind against cyclists. No reason to feel guilty about a lil’ guy who doesn’t know any better. Glad you said “Hi!”
It is a casually deliberate thing… you give the child something to look up to, provide him a model of being, inspiration if you will.
I am fortunate to live in an area (Nor. Cal. Bay area) where we are at times simultaneously both… :) On the east side of the bay the climbs are brutal, exposed to the sun and wind, and require significant withdrawals from the Bank Of V. When riding on the east side, you get and give a nod. The Peninsula is festooned with bikers and fixie fairies commuting between critical mass events and Bike Parties . Nod at your own peril.
Ha, just found this little gem of a post. I must say that my nods are given out rather freely. Rationed like it was the day before doomsday and I won’t ever be able to use them again anyhow.
But to be nod snobbed by a cyclist not in strict adherence to the rules!? That must be atoned for. So trained I have become in spotting violations of the order, I quickly point out a few violations for the offending cyclist to contemplate for the remainder of their ride. “Nice saddlebag ya douche nozzle.” Or better yet… “sweet stack height.” And when applicable the ultimate “nice cockring on your arm!” Keep in mind you must be able to lay down copious quantities of V when yelling these insults…. you never know how far you may have to outsprint the brut whom you just offended.
@pakrat
++1! I was contemplating this the other day. I’ve become much more free with my nods recently, especially since someone on Facebook once said they got nod-snobbed by a douche in a V-Kit. Not a good reputation to be building.
But, I have to say, I still am judicious. I’ll give you a nod so long as some of the Fundamental Rules are observed. Some samples below.
You are:
A nod should be just as subtle as an elbow flick.
@Jeff in PetroMetro
Well we all know that a nod’s as good as a wink to a blind bat.
Whats everyones take on the “nod” when passing someone or on being passed? I usually feel bad for people I pass. I’m a pretty lousy climber and I suffer. When people pass me and don’t acknowledge me I tend to hate them for a second. When they do acknowledge me I tend to think “show off” and then hate them for a second. So when I pass some poor soul labouring on climb I am never sure of the correct etiquette because I think I’ll probably be hated anyway. Conversely if you want to grind someone into the dust becase they nod snobbed you before the climb what’s the best way? Ride by in silence or give them a cheery “morning” as you pass?
@paolo
I reckon there is no right answer to these questions. Each Velominatus must find his own style for such moments..
I nod at people a lot. More so if they are passing close by me rather than if they are all the way across a multi-lane road.
I don’t nod at recumbent riders because I don’t think they’d see it, since they’re about eye level to an ant way down there.
I also wave a cars that stop for me, even when they are supposed to, just to try and spread some good feelings around. As great as Portland is for riding, the local media just LOVES to sensationalize bike-vs-car “culture” garbage and I want to try and counteract that. I don’t get much crap from motorists while out riding and I’d like to keep it that way.
As far as passing people while climbing, that doesn’t happen often – but I usually just give an “on your left” and keep on my way, trying to keep up the facade that I’m hurting less than they are. If the climb is more of a gentle incline sometimes I’ll say “hi” or “nice day for a ride” or something of that sort.
Wether on the drops or hoods my usual “nod” is a little outward flick of the fingers while the thumb is still grasping the bars. Which side depends on wether I am passing or wether it is from the opposite direction. My one golden rule is never to be the first to nod at anyone rolling a Livestrong/Postal/Discovery/Shack kit. I will reciprocate since I am no classless ass. I figure we Velominati have to set the bar for everyone else.
@paolo
True. Just roll by and be friendly. And not too out of breath. You’ll be hated, so you might as well do it in style.
Fucking hammer up to them and right as you’re about to pass them, shift into the big ring, pop onto the tops, make your arms stick straight like you’re rolling down the boulevard on a sunny Sunday afternoon, and pass them like you were just casually blasting up the hill like that. Keep it up until you’re around the next bend or turn-off and spend the next 3k gasping for breath.
@paolo
@Nate
@mcsqueak
@pakrat
I’m so damn friendly it’s ridiculous. I’m like Forrest Gump waving at Lieutenant Dan. I’ve met so many friends that way. “Hi!” “Hey, nice bike.” “Beautiful day.” “Sure is ______________ (hot/cold/windy).” I’m such a dork.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZAF75hwPUQ
@Jeff in PetroMetro
Too fucking funny!!! I am the EXACT same way! Kills me to read your post.
Hell, I’ve been known to slow my pace so as NOT to pass someone b/c I thought it would make them feel bad. Oh well. Still live to ride and lose myself in the hum of the wheels.
@Buck Rogers
Yeah. It’s why I’m so put out by the triathlon community. Literally everyone else says hi except for them. The local cat. 1’s and 2’s say hi. The cat. 5’s mostly say hi, but they’re not quite sure if that’s manly or not. Mountain bikers, fixie hipsters, commuters. Even the homeless panhandlers say hi. One played a song for me on his harmonica. He said someone handed it to him out of a car window the day before. I thought that was kinda cool. The MS150 crowd are as dorky as me. Smiles abound ’cause we’re riding our bikes.
But not from the tri-guys. They really do need to go to their “Happy Place”.
I’m glad you lot are a friendly bunch. I say hi to almost everyone except when I am descending or suffering. As for cars I wave and say thanks to everyone for doing exactly what they are supposed to. I think of myself as a cycling ambassador and that if I spread good karma some other cyclist will benefit. Suprisingly even though LA is chocka full of ass holes in cars I have rarely had a bad incident. Most are very respectful of riders but it is best to be off the roads by about 4pm. That’s when they start losing their minds. I also find if you’re very confident and direct about making lane changes etc so they know exactly what you’re going to do, they respond better.
@frank
Gonna do exactly that next time…cheers.
@Buck Rogers, @Jeff in PetroMetro
Just in case we’re not joking anymore…Rule 71.
@Jeff in PetroMetro
Besides, if you wave they’ll say something about your Look…
@frank
I know, I know, but sometimes you just know that the fat dude ahead of you is already in the morale gutter and to blow by him might just be the final nail in the coffin.
Now, in a race, obviously they’re fodder, but sometimes, not always, on a training ride, I slow down so that I can turn onto a different route before I catch them.
Yeah, yeah, okay, time to do hill repeats until I can taste the blood for penance for my sins.
@Jeff in PetroMetro @Buck Rogers
I think you can be liberal with your nods, but it does have to be cool and in character. I find myself doing a lot of nodding to cyclists of all stripes. But if you’re trying to be a bike snob””and failing””don’t expect a nod from me. And if you’re bedecked on a $10,000 steed and rolling around at 20kph, don’t expect a nod. But if you’re out and enjoying the fresh air and enjoying the ride, good on you. Nod. The further from town, too, the more deserving…
@frank
And I’m still bummed about the kid getting nod snobbed. My attitude is this: they get the same acknowledgment as any other worthy rider. No more, no less. What’s a kid going to appreciate more: some clown giving him/her a big smile and stupid wave or some guy in cool kit who treats him/her like another serious rider. I think we have a responsibility to foster the next generation of V (not just breed it and then blimp).
I flash a peace sign from the hoods usually. Occasionally I go with the nod.
@frank
I follow the Merckx training plan of “ride more.” If there is a carrot up the road, and I’m not out on a 5+ hour ride, well I’m going to try and catch them, or ride them off my wheel. I find it a much more fun and effective means of laying down The V. Far more interesting than actually trying to do disciplined intervals. Talking to cyclists with actual training plans makes me happy to avoid such things. Training for ultra-distances, I just work on doing 75% of the distance. Otherwise, I take headwinds as an excuse to suffer and hills and climbs as the grace of Merckx permitting me the most beautiful experience in the world.
@frank
This is my preferred method just about every time I go around anyone. If I think I can get someone behind me and keep them there I go for it with gusto while exuding the impression of one who is casually deliberate, even if it is just pretend.
On the other hand, there’s not a lot that I find to be more embarrassing than passing someone only to be passed back a short time later. If I think I’m simply a better climber than they are and feel that it is likely that I may be passed on the next extended flat or descent than I try to be polite and pass slowly and politely, but I always make a point to hide the hurt whatever the situation may be.
From the same family as nod snobbing comes an old chestnut that arises from time to time, especially on busy bike thoroughfares. Our one in Melbourne is a stretch called Beach Road and the issue, for want of a better term, is “bunch protection”.
This arises where you have a bunch of riders known to one another going along in a rotation.
You pass a rider or two who then jump on the back (which is fine – it doesn’t cost a candle to light another wick…) however some of these riders may then start going through the rotation uninvited. They may be the bestest bike handlers in the world but you don’t know that. So you try to protect your bunch by asking said riders to stay out of the rotation.
Half the time the interlopers will happily abide by your request (you gotta say it nicely – which can be hard in a fast rotating bunch) but some others react like you have just told them to go and fornicate with a stray cat.
Shows pretty ordinary manners in my book just to jump in without so much as a “by your leave”…
Discuss?
As to nod snobs I believe that the legitimacy of the nod snob and/or degree of allowable response bears a correlation of 1 to the busyness of the road, ie. you are out in the middle of nowhere – greet another rider like he/she is your long lost sibling.
Ride along a place where there are a gazillion riders – nod snobs all round…
@Buck Rogers
Say no more…
@Marcus
Nothing to discuss. (1) For the “other” rider – if you’re invited, then join in, if not then don’t. (2) For the bunch – if you see someone regularly and they look like they can handle a bike, invite em in.
My first bunch ride I had absolutely no idea of what to do. An old guy saw this. He calmly told me how it went then rode beside me and, when we were in the wind, explained about the pace we should be travelling, how to be careful not to half-wheel, how to drop back when I was done, and to make sure to introduce myself to all the other members of the bunch. Great advice, and I rode regularly with them for a year or so.
I was feeling somewhat cocky on tonight’s ride and poped into a higher gear right after I passed some dude in FSA shorts and a Castelli top while going up a hill. He was having a hard time of it, too – probably means I’ll get a bee in the eye on my next ride for being deliberately mean. I traditionally don’t climb well for my weight so I usually don’t pull such stunts, but I’ve been feeling really good the past two weeks. Like I may peak sometime this year for once. Don’t know what I’m doing different from last year, but whatever it is seems to be working.
Indeed. If I’m passing several people every minute I’m not going to sit there nodding at everyone. I need to save my energy for those climbs, you see.
Also, yeah – no jumping into pace lines with strangers unless you’ve asked – seems like common sense to me, as I’d rather not get taken out by some rando.
@Steampunk
Since August 2009 I’ve wondered, but I have to ask…you know that’s a joke right? You know I didn’t nod snob the poor kid on the drag-a-bike, right? Just sayin. You know, for the record.
@frank
You never know what us jerky Americans will do. I think Canadians believe we all drive around and just shoot each other all day.
@Marcus
Really no discussion necessary. Ask nicely. If told no, it’s not personal. If invited in, be honest about your strength or weakness and communicate. If the pace is too high, thank them and let them know you’re going to drift to the back and don’t make a gap. If you feel good, don’t half-wheel and don’t pull through like Cavendish. But do take your turn. And if you don’t know how to rotate in an echelon, doing it at speed with a strange group is not the best time to start. Practice with more experienced mates first.
@mcsqueak
Um, in the PetroMetro, road rage and the brandishing of firearms is pretty normal. It really is a freak show down here.
@Jeff in PetroMetro
Any truth to the rumor that carbon fiber gun racks are available at the finer LBGSs (local bike and gun shops)?
No need for the rack unless you’re going out hunting. We roadies keep our carbon fiber Glocks in the same jersey pocket as our cell phones. Either way, we can reach out and touch someone.
@xyxax
Oops. Forgot to hit “reply”.
@Jeff in Petro Metro
you are particularly more funnier in the wee hours.
@Jeff in PetroMetro
(Remember peeps, this is opinion sharing; not saying everyone should think like me!)
You are not a dork! The planet could use more people like you. It would make for a MUCH more amusing planet. Also more pleasant. IMHO.
Being so concerned with such a simple gesture & how it reflects on your “coolness” – seems a frivilous reason to to justify making the world even meaner than it is.
I thought worrying about being “cool” & hanging out w/only the “cool” people because you’re worried uncool ppl’s uncoolness will rub off on you was something we left behind in… well, college, at the latest. The cool of the ultimate cool person isn’t affected by the cool/lack of cool of those around him/her.
I’m not lumping ALL cycling etiquette, Rules, etc. under “cool” & throwing the baby out w/the bathwater, mind you. And what we’re talking about – a miniscule gesture in a split second in time – doesn’t fall under the “you are known by the company you keep” truism, let’s be serious.
Sure, I can be a cycling snob, from a distance… or if it’s something someone’s doing that’s endangering people. But anybody who gets out on a bike, no matter how fred-ish – kudos to them!
I think it’s more than obvious to anyone who knows anything that a “serious” athlete is exactly that by the way he/she looks/rides/behaves. Feeling one has to snub people in order to build oneself up/set oneself apart – bordering on very nasty. IMHO.
I can’t say I ever thought much about this nod/wave thing. If someone coming towards me is obviously “out cycling,” even if they’re wearing a t-shirt & look dorky – & aren’t miles away across a 6 lane highway w/a gigantic median – they’ll get a relaxed, slight raise of a hand from the bar (that’s how we do it down heah in da south) – or depending on what house the moon is in, maybe the four finger lift pakrat described.
…Unless I’m on a chunk blowing mission & am a bit occupied – even then, if I see them (which I think often I mayn’t; too focused & probably experiencing tunnel vision & spots in eyes), unless my nose is on my top tube & I’m close to reaching my goal, I’ll attempt a multiple finger lift, w/out really thinking about it.
Or unless as mcsqueak said, there’re so many cyclists out’n’about it just gets ridiculous. This is pretty rare around my patch of the woods, tho – lotta cyclists, but lotta miles of road out there to spread ’em out on.
And no matter who it is, if they acknowledge me first, they’ll get the wave (or fingers lift). It just has ever been thus. It’s how my momma brought me up. It’s civil. Civility and treating people like fellow humans is “cool,” in my book. It doesn’t make you less cool.
And heavens, it never entered my mind to feel sorry for passing anybody (quite the opposite; can’t help it). I’m out doing my ride, they’re out doing theirs, so what. But it’s polite, and safe, first off, to let them know you’re coming up (“RIDER ON YOUR LEFT!”).
And when *passing* someone, even if it’s Grandma on her cruiser, I always give the friendly low key hand/fingers wave.
I figure, two miles down the road a rock truck might squash me. Grandma might be the one with the cell phone to call the EMT to come scrape me off the road.
What goes around comes around.
“and well you know that it’s a fool
who plays it cool
by making his world a little colder”
@Marcus
I would feel obligated to pull if I joined in with a group on the road. But it would be best to ask first, although I would not have thought of asking prior to seeing this discussion.
@xyxax
Sleep deprivation has that affect on me.