I have a friend who is borderline OCD. He’ll sometimes wash his hands dozens of times a day, doesn’t like sticky stuff, cats drive him to antihistamine hell and there is a place for everything, with everything in its place. This can be annoying, not only for those around him, but especially for himself. It’s not a great place to be.
The upside is his bikes are always meticulously maintained, fully Rule compliant, or they are in a state of tear-down having last week’s grease freshened up and each ball bearing individually polished. He’s gotten it under control quite admirably these days, and while a chip in the duco of his beautiful steel frame will still understandably piss him off, there’s not the slightest hint of sending it back to Italy to be re-sprayed by the 78 year old artisan who originally painted it, who inconveniently happened to retire in 1984. But you can rest assured the touch-up job he’ll do himself is of paintshop standard.
But I’ve never seen him muck around with his seatpost height. Not once it’s set, anyway.
This poses the question: did The Prophet have OCD? To this observer it seems so, if numerous viewings of Le Course En Tete and A Sunday in Hell are any reliable indicator. The guy was constantly fiddling with his seatpost height. His mechanic must’ve been ready to throw his hands in the air proclaiming “Merde, Eddy! I’ve measured it three times already! Why do you not trust me?”
It seemed to matter little to Eddy that poor Charly had adhered to the numbers scribbled on the lid of his toolbox, taken the slide rule and spirit level to every possible surface and angle, and used his impeccable line of sight to position the saddle just right, exactly where it was requested to be. “How’s that Eddy?” “Is perfect.” “Then why are you borrowing a spanner from RDV’s team car? Hmmm?”
If he wasn’t adjusting his saddle, he was adjusting his stem. If he wasn’t adjusting his stem, he was squirting water from his bidon onto his brakes. If he wasn’t doing that, he was simply laying down the law. The law of The Prophet.
Obsessive? Yes. Compulsive? For sure. Did it affect his ability to waste all comers? Not likely.
[dmalbum path=”/velominati.com/content/Photo Galleries/brettok@velominati.com/merckx terryn/”/]
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oh,i forgot to mention.... i think i may have learned something from all that reading, and i just might someday work on getting the perfect position, or as close to it as possible. seriously, you guys amaze me, and are awesome.
@silkrider
If it works for you, who can argue?
@Mikael Liddy
Nah, the pics were taken a year apart. They are at the same spot in reality. But keen eye. Good on ya.
Just measured my saddle height the way suggested here from center of BB to top of the saddle. As a demonstration of why I don't like this approach, it measures up to a cm differently based on where I measure to, and depending on how I sight across, I can easily add another .5 to 1 cm.
This is a tricky business, but I think you get better results first getting your setback and then measuring to the center of the saddle rail at a fixed point on your saddle. And it seems you almost have to have the same saddle to ever get anywhere close.
In any case, my height measures 87 cm that way! As stated before, if I was a chick, I'd be hot. Instead I look like a girafe at water.
I measured 68cm (rounding up) if I interpreted the methodology correctly. "Top of saddle" is top through the seat post? The first meeting of the DLV will be soon. That would be the Dwarf Leg Velominati. The silent (except for me) majority. At least, I like to think so.
@frank
As @itburns says, it's hard to get different numbers if you measure in a straight line from the centre of the b/b (or crank if that's your bag) through the imaginary centre line of your seat tube and seat post.
Setback is affected by seat height as much as seat height is affected by setback, so neither is better than the other to be done first. Once you have both close enough then it's time to tweak it all, rechecking as you go in light of their mutual affect on each other.
As we've established, this is just a starting point anyway, so the precision comes later with experience and trial and error.
@itburns
Would the first meeting of the DLV come to order? As the tallest of the Dwarves, I nominate @itburns as the Chair.
All interesting points you make about position @frank and @Calmante.
I seem to have found what works for me at the moment on my road bike. This has been achieved through a proper fit (BG Fit in this case) at my LBS. Interestingly it wasn't significantly different to what I had previously at that point in time.
What I have found quite interesting is how the relationship of the saddle fore aft position affects the vertical distance from top of saddle to the C/L of pedal spindle. As the saddle is brought forward, the saddle moves up to compensate for the change in the relationship to the BB.
Long ago, I subscribed to the exaggerated saddle setback displayed by the pros in the late 80's, and set up my mountain bike to reflect this. (note that for the past 10 years I have been riding mtb exclusively, back to riding on the road only in the past year or so)
What I've found though is that I've been gradually adjusting my position such that the saddle sits pretty much dead centre of the seatpost. This caused me all sorts of grief when I first began to adjust it, as I found that I was recruiting different muscles in my quads, and effectively had no power. Over a period of about 6 weeks though, I found that my body adjusted and had more power at my disposal than before.
Anyhoo, aside from rambling on about my experience, my point is that saddle for aft position is relatively important, of course. However, I do find that depending on what sort of effort that I'm putting in, my relative position on the saddle changes dramatically. I tend to more on the front during high cadence, high output efforts, whilst on more raw power, puncheur/roller type efforts, I'm more to the back of the saddle. Certainly when i'm spinning away at a normal effort, I'm sitting dead centre.
I guess what I'm contemplating in a roundabout way is what I'll describe as "The Princess and the Pea Principle" in relation to bike fit. I feel like I've got my position about right. I notice that when I switch between bikes, it doesn't matter a great deal as they are quite similar. This has been achieved by tweaking over time but I haven't gone to vernier calipers to verify anything, and don't feel like I need to. It feels 'about' right, and that's good enough for me.
Hmm, Seems like I've just called @frank a princess.
I'll get me coat...
@frank
Shit, now all this talk of bike fit has me sweating like a blind lesbian at the fish counter.
A brief history,
MTB #1
Please forgive me Merckx the Rule 29 EPMS violation, this bike was built pre Pre-V days.
MTB #2
Neither MTB's are anywhere near the same setup whilst also being miles away from Road #1.
Hence both MTB's are being sold to pastures new, far too little use since the road bike joined the stable and the different geometry of all three is driving me nuts.
Now, when I go and order my new frame I will be encoureaged by my LBS to have a bike fit done. My feelings are, if I do, and I don't like it, I will simply divert to my road bike geometry. But, it will drive me insane wondering why the bike shop is telling me that what they are suggesting is the optimum for me, based on their vast experience.
I think I would be best in ignoring the bike fit, for fear of lying awake at night wondering why a specialist feels I have my setup different to his suggestions, albeit a very experienced guy (ex-racer, long time shop owner, universally far more knowledgable than I will ever be) and going with a geometry that matches my current road bike.
The new bike will be used for CX and general mucky / wintry riding. Would that change my ideal setup much ? Can't see why, a well set up bike should be comfy for all riding ?
I have an image of the Keepers' Tour, on the first morning...
We get the rental bikes and everyone pulls out micrometers, plumb-bobs, pre-marked tape measures, protractors and torque wrench sets and spends two hours making minute adjustments.
@SimonH
Mountain bike geometry should not mimic road geometry. It's not 1990 anymore. They are totally different beasts, especially in the ways the mtb has evolved over the last ten years. Stems are shorter, bars wider, head angles slacker. Even a cross bike is going to need different set up to your roady.
If you're buying a mtb, just get the right frame size, get a short (50mm-80mm) stem and a nice, wide (710mm) bar and you can ride anything. And unless you are racing XC at a competitive level, forget lightweight hardtails. Get some travel and actually enjoy riding.
PS that Lynskey Lefty looks sweet!