Frame Job

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• My two cents.

  A proper bike fit should be based upon the individual's ranges of motion. Hip flexors, hamstrings, neck , shoulders, and any pre-existing physical conditions are all important.

  Muscle density is also counts for a lot. For example, even though he or she may be able to lay palms flat on the floor without bending knees, a rider with a winged scapula might not possess the strength to ride low in the drops when the bar tops are 6cm below the top the saddle.

  Each rider is unique, and sadly mass produced frames don't always offer the correct geometry for a particular rider.  Gilbert rides such a small frame with such a long post and stem most likely because the one in his correct seat tube height has a top tube that is way too long for him.

  This is a more common problem these days than it was prior to about 1999 or 2000, because back in the day most, if not all pros rode on fully custom frames.  Today, most pros are under contract to ride stock frames provided by their bike sponsor. That works fine for many riders, not so well for others. Many athletes excel no matter what they ride. Still, who knows how much better they might be on the perfect frame.

  It is rumored that the "Pinarello's" raced by Indurain were built by Mondonico. Even pharmstrong insisted on racing his Lightspeed Blade in the TT until trek finally made a TT bike that he approved of. Every one of the bikes raced by LeMan during his professional years was built on a made-to-measure frame.  Davis Phinney made no secret of the fact that he raced his entire professional career exclusively on custom Serrottas. The frame might have read Raleigh, or Huffy, but if it was assigned to Davis, it was in fact a made to measure Serrotta.

  Times have changed, and in some ways, not for the better.

• Also, there is the fact that many frames today are "compact" frames, and will be numerically different with more seat post showing, but the end result might be the same for a compact 48 as a traditional 54 or 56.  Just as Dan R's customer has discovered, there is some gold to be mined from the old Coni system, but there is a lot more to a bike fit than just seat tube length.

• @artman

  My two cents.

  A proper bike fit should be based upon the individual's ranges of motion. Hip flexors, hamstrings, neck , shoulders, and any pre-existing physical conditions are all important.

  Muscle density is also counts for a lot. For example, even though he or she may be able to lay palms flat on the floor without bending knees, a rider with a winged scapula might not possess the strength to ride low in the drops when the bar tops are 6cm below the top the saddle.

  Each rider is unique, and sadly mass produced frames don't always offer the correct geometry for a particular rider. Gilbert rides such a small frame with such a long post and stem most likely because the one in his correct seat tube height has a top tube that is way too long for him.

  This is a more common problem these days than it was prior to about 1999 or 2000, because back in the day most, if not all pros rode on fully custom frames. Today, most pros are under contract to ride stock frames provided by their bike sponsor. That works fine for many riders, not so well for others. Many athletes excel no matter what they ride. Still, who knows how much better they might be on the perfect frame.

  It is rumored that the "Pinarello's" raced by Indurain were built by Mondonico. Even Pharmstrong insisted on racing his Lightspeed Blade in the TT until trek finally made a TT bike that he approved of. Every one of the bikes raced by LeMan during his professional years was built on a made-to-measure frame. Davis Phinney made no secret of the fact that he raced his entire professional career exclusively on custom Serrottas. The frame might have read Raleigh, or Huffy, but if it was assigned to Davis, it was in fact a made to measure Serrotta.

  Times have changed, and in some ways, not for the better.

  Good points all around. Something that gets missed by us, über fans, is that almost every pro rides stock frames, and those frames aren't given to the teams that are riding them. They're all purchased by the teams, albeit at near cost. I always assumed that the Pro Continental Teams got the frame sets for free until I started managing a elite amateur team in the PNW and got to know the frame reps from Giant, Cervelo, Ride Blue, Specialized to name a few. 2 seasons ago we got "pro pricing" from one of those companies and while the deal is out of sight, they're not free.

  So the racers are getting the bikes for free, but the team is actually paying for them in any case.

• @Gianni  I read that book back when it was first published. Good book, but don't forget that at the time steel frames were lugged and used small diameter tubing. Most were either 531 or Columbus Sl, and the carbon frames of the day were also pretty rubbery when compared to most of today's road racing frames.

  Today's materials have helped to create a whole new game. Today's steel frames as well as carbon ones are much stronger, lighter, and stiffer than what was available then.

• @scaler911

  So true. From Specialized, "pro pricing" is similar to what they offer Employees on select models. They call it "Evangelist". About %20 below standard dealer cost.

• After reading many different books on bicycle fit, attending many seminars and classes, and having performed hundreds of fits between 1984 and today, I have to say that every system or method I've studied has it's gold nuggets, but the most important thing for me to keep in mind is that each athlete is unique. In my opinion, there is no good that can come from attempting to mold every rider into the exact same shape, and no way to dictate stem length or seat post height based on rider height or any other single measurement alone.

• Look at this guy. He was pretty fast. Little bit o' quill stem showing there.

• @artman

  After reading many different books on bicycle fit, attending many seminars and classes, and having performed hundreds of fits between 1984 and today, I have to say that every system or method I've studied has it's gold nuggets, but the most important thing for me to keep in mind is that each athlete is unique. In my opinion, there is no good that can come from attempting to mold every rider into the exact same shape, and no way to dictate stem length or seat post height based on rider height or any other single measurement alone.

  Bang on artman. I use a wide variety of source while doing a fit. If my Cinelli customer had not been happy with the small frame, I had a medium to build up. You just never know even with all the measurements in the world.

  @scaler911 & @artman  The dirty secret of the peloton is that many pros are still riding custom cut frames these days. Nearly 75% of Italian pros ride custom from Venezia (I will let you try and figure out who is there). With carbon, a custom builder can shape the frame to meet the sponsor's frame design, but then tune it to the athlete. The team purchased bikes go to those that cannot afford or choose not to ride custom. And try explaining to your "shop sponsored pro" that no, Zipp does not give away wheels. Neither do I.

• @artman

  Muscle density is also counts for a lot. For example, even though he or she may be able to lay palms flat on the floor without bending knees, a rider with a winged scapula might not possess the strength to ride low in the drops when the bar tops are 6cm below the top the saddle.

  That's my excuse from now on and I sticking to it....I must have a winged scapula!  No idea what that is, but it explains everything!!

• I know this is entirely unscientific, but is it not also possible that typical (recommended) frame sizes are for typical riders. Whereas if you're a full time athlete working in a decent amount of strength and flexibility work you can be comfortable in positions that seem odd to us.

  To undermine my standing as a cyclist, this suggestion is prompted by seeing people with very similar body measurements using very different equipment positions in a rowing (crew) boat, depending on their flexibility and history of injury.