In Search of Power
It’s no secret that I’m prone to riding in the big ring as much as possible, mostly on account of my not being a giant sissy. In accordance with the ISO Non-Sissy Standard, I also never read instruction manuals or ask for directions when lost. I make sure to only rarely ask my VMH to turn up the radio when Adele comes on, usually followed quickly by an ernest explanation of how I thought it was Metallica, and how Rolling in the Deep ripped off the opening to Enter Sandman. The record does show, however, that I occasionally fly into hysterics when surprised by an insect or amphibian – but that’s just good common sense.
Pantani’s in-the-drops climbing style has always impressed me, but he’s only one of the riders who won races going down in the drops looking for more power on the climbs; Jan Ullrich was often climbing in the drops as well as our mate Johan Museeuw – not to mention Richard Virenque and so did Frank Vandenbroucke. Looking at that list, I wonder if the UCI should explore adjusting the test for EPO to examine time spent climbing in the drops.
Riding the route of Liege-Bastogne-Liege with Johan last Keepers Tour, I noticed a pattern in his riding style. Whenever the gradient increased on a climb, instead of changing gear he just moved his hands to the drops and rose out of the saddle to casually push the same gear over the steep. It looked so easy, it was impossible to resist trying it myself. At first, there is a strange sort of sensation, like you’re dipping your nose into the tarmac. But then when you switch to the hoods, you notice an immediate loss of leverage. After practicing it, it becomes second nature.
Someone once told me that the key to going fast is to try to break your handlebars, and that’s just what I’ve been trying to do lately although I hope I’m ultimately unsuccessful. Since gleaning this trick from Johan’s riding style, I’ve been staying in the big ring longer and climbing out of the saddle in the drops, pulling hard on bars and feeling them flex. Its not always faster than spinning a low gear but it has the benefit of taking the load off your cardiovascular system and putting it on your muscular system – a handy thing if your form is missing something or you’ve got massive guns (which I don’t).
This has brought another notion to light: the lower the hand position, the better able you are to find the leverage you need to turn the pedals. This is one of the principle issues with the sit up and beg epidemic, apart from it looking crap and being less stable. But hand height seems to impact power; I’ve noticed that when I’m climbing on the tops, I can breath easily and I’m able to maintain a speed well, but acceleration is difficult. To accelerate or hold a pace up a steep gradient (which is almost the same as accelerating), I’m better served riding on the hoods where my position is a bit lower. But when I really need power, I go looking for it in the drops.
All this brings into question the current trend towards compact bars and flat hand positions between the tops and hoods, with the drops only a bit lower. Compare that to the deep drops ridden in the past, in the style of Eddy Merckx and Roger de Vlaeminck where the hoods were halfway between the tops and the drops. The modern bar shape and hood position seems to reduce the riding positions to as few as possible, while in the past, they were designed to provide as many as possible.
In any case, big sweeping drops look the business and I’m pretty sure they are in complete compliance with the ISO Non-Sissy Standard.
Climbing in the drops works for short climbs sure, where leverage is key (that’s why the hills are called punchers, no?) but I was always taught to move the upper body as little as possible on longer climbs. The tops are the place to just rest your relaxed hands. Of course, you’re going to have to hold on tight to attack for sure, but since my name ain’t Pantani, my hands are going to the hoods (which are correctly placed on proper bars).
Side note regarding the non-sissy standard: it needs to be applied to those “flopping” sports in a major way.
I totally agree. The first time I rode with some pros (Note – hey slowed down to let a few of us hang out with them for a couple of days- this is by no means a boastful statement of my cycling ability) I also couldn’t help but notice they would not downshift so much on the small rises but instead just power over and I was often just spinning 20 rpm above them as they pulled away over the crest. I now consciously try to limit the downshifts and drop a bit of cadence and HTFU.
I slogged on through, but damn, the opening paragraph is excellent. I’m kidding, the whole things is slick.
Interesting thoughts on the trend of bar shape, which reduces hand positions. Less variety is never a good idea. I try to use the tops, hoods and drops frequently during rides, if nothing more than to just keep the hands, neck, and upper back shifting to avoid stiffness.
I too avoid the inner ring. Last evening was riding the bike home from the LBS after they did some work on it. Was in shorts and sneakers, decided this made it okay to go for the wee one. Dropped my chain, couldn’t get it back on by shifting. I can’t remember the last time I dropped my chain in #1.
Thus, I see many, many months of Big Ringin’ it.
What Ron said.
I have some distance to do in June as I am attempting a Lejog. On recent ‘training’ rides (erm coffee shop visits) I tend to ride very much within myself, always looking to conserve energy. I now think I need to get out of that comfort zone, and train harder to fight easier. Probably all a head thing.
When I purchased my ‘custom’ frameset (it wasn’t custom built for me but would have been the bike the builder would have built for me), I had an in depth discussion on just this point regarding compact handlebars. I had been riding them on my Ridley and the builder said that he absolutely thought that they were a mistake for me and that I should get a classic or deep drop bar as compacts don’t offer enough variation in hand positions. I took his advice and have been much happier. My position is admittedly pretty sit up and beg on the tops and even the hoods, but I can ride in the drops all day. Its much more comfortable and I feel I have better control of the bike and better braking performance from the drops. When I need a bit of respite or want to vary my position when climbing – there is actually a variation to be had.
I’ve looked at compact bars, but for someone like me with long orangutan-like arms it seems like the extra bit of drop in the bars is preferable vs. some advantage from being compact. Maybe the pros do it because they have a ridiculous amount of drop between saddle and bars?
With the weather improving and the necessity of Rule #9 waning, I’ll learn from Ron’s mistake and endeavor to use the big ring on runs to the local breweries.
I guess reading this at work is permitted since there’s mention of ISO standards. I ended up with compact bars as they were touted for small hands, and I was thinking in terms of reach to the brifters from the drops. Hate them, and looking for something more traditional.
“Its no secret that I’m prone to riding in the big ring as much as possible, mostly on account of my not being a giant sissy.”
I couldn’t help notice that the story changes once the descent begins. ;)
All true and there’s some sage advice hidden in here. I moved to traditional bend bars last year and haven’t looked back, but am still not as low at the front as I’d like to be. Just can’t get my neck to be comfortable on rides over two hours.
I love my compact bars and nothing will dissuade me from that. And lets not forget, compact bars are > ergo bars.
I think the advice about trying to break your handlebars if you want to go faster is true – I seem to get a bit more speed when I’m trying to pull those damn handlebars in to a crazy new shape*. I try not to over-do it, partly because of Rule #23, but also because it gives me back problems, especially if I’m in the drops too long on a climb (though it could be because I’m usually wearing a backpack on my commute).
* I’m actually half hoping that one day I do bend the OE ‘Bontrager-approved’ bars out of shape so I can justifiably replace them with something better and lighter. I appreciate that’s unlikely to happen unless I crash. Also, the drop on my bars is way too shallow for my hands – the old style of low hoods and deep drops definitely has a lot of appeal.
I see what you did there, Frank. Very subtle, but probably the best pseudo mis-use of ‘principle’. Though you may have been referring to the primary issue with the Sit up and Beg epidemic, the avoidance of such a position is certainly a matter of principle too. After all, looking fantastic is a fundamental principle to being a Velominatus.
I have two particular hellingen where I must try this. You can set a pretty good rhythm and pace for the first 90%, but that last 10% the angle changes and it is always a struggle to maintain my V. If I can now maintain my gear and cadence all the way, then surely I can shed a few sacrificial lambs at the back of the gruppetto
In fact, there is perhaps even a third that the tarmac is so otherwise battered, charred, pitted, and pocked by mother nature that with this approach it will become passable again…
Just imagined track and field sprinters trying to start from a position with their hands on their knees — not much to leverage fast-twitch muscles. Starting as low as possible (lower center of gravity) allows position and power to get the body up to speed. Fortunately for us (Velominati) a frameset allows this position and power to continue with speed — floating.
Great article. I will have to try this. I have tried it before after hearing you praise this style in the past but it never seemed to work for me AT ALL.
But, at the risk of being totally outside of the V popular opinion, no one has accelerated more beautifully and gracefully on a climb in the last 10 years like Bertie Clenbuterol. He truly looks like he is performing ballet as he floats (or floated–back in the day of steak for dinner) away form everyone else.
I’ve got 3T Ergonova on at the moment with the hoods set very flat. There isn’t alot of choice of position; tops, hoods, forward in the drops for breaking and shifting and right on the cuff links. I’ve got some Rotundo waiting to go on with the next cable/tape refresh to see how they work. Reach to the levers might be a bit of an issue, I’ve got fairly small hands.
@Steve-o
Where do you live, Lo Sceriffo is coming to talk to about using that word?
Riding the single speed 48/15 has been teaching me to HTFU on the hills. The pista bars also only have 1 real hand position, which is way in the drops. I’m interested in seeing how it affects my road bike climbing.
O Great One , scared of insects and frogs ?
Love my Cinelli 66-44’s on the old Columbus MAX.
Haleakala ascent on the drops?
Fabulous article in which every word is true. I know this because even though I suck mightily as a Cyclist, I have always sucked a little less when I’ve ridden as described above.
One of my most treasured sensations of any minute gain in fitness is any increase in my ability to climb in the drops. Because climbing in the drops is badass, and it works.
Thought about this today and while looking at a pic of my CX bike in 2004 vs the road bike I had for years. Noticed something and maybe it is just me. But I noticed that it seems Hoods today are generally set higher now. Maybe it it this size and curve of their shape compared to the old school style sans built in Brifters.
Maybe as I said it is just me but then again I am kind of a Retrogrouch.
Here are some spring classics examples (with negative rise–love that term–stems) from JVS’s P-R winning and Paolini’s current bike. As you say @frank, “…big sweeping drops look the business … in complete compliance with the ISO Non-Sissy Standard.”
Also using negative rise stems with compact bars seems to be gaining popularity as riders spend a lot of time on the tops.
(slipped in this pic of Boonen–couldn’t resist)
My bars are probably considered compact traditional bend, I love them. Zipp changed the shape so now I must hold onto these forever!
@Endurimil
Maybe it’s because we use the hoods kinda like bar ends?
@Buck Rogers
Would anyone really argue with this? He’s a fantastic climber and he’s always racing.
@freddy
Taylor Phinney’s 15cm, -17 degrees stem on his BMC GF01 for Paris-Roubaix.
But Andrey Kashechkin is famous for his stem. He had a custom 17cm stem for a long time, but some are reporting 20cm now. Not sure I believe that though.
I think compact bars make sense if you already have a decent position on the hoods, ie not too sit up and beg. As for the “big ring” willy waving, you should be in the gear that gets up the hill in the best way. You might want to stress the cv system by spinning or stress the big muscles by pushing a big gear, or whatever. There is nothing intrinsically virtuous about the big ring. Yes, I know that is heretical, but I am a rule wholist. Gear inches are gear inches.
@The Grande Fondue
3T Ergosum bar
@geoffrey
Have you guys seen the trailer?
http://youtu.be/xfN3uxk-vRs?t=31s
@Ccos
This very good advise pertains to movement of the upper body while pedaling – not between positions. If you move your upper body 10cm with every pedal stroke and you pedal at 75rpm and your torso, arms, and head weigh 50 kilos, that means you’re lifting and lowering 50 kilos 75 times per minute. That’s a ton of lost energy. Moving your hands from one position to another a few times during a 45 minute climb is another thing altogether.
TOTALLY.
@Chris
Best comment of the day, right there.
@GogglesPizano
They have the artillery to do it for much longer than we do, but it doesn’t mean we can’t use their tricks. My big takeaway the first time I rode with him was just to keep the tempo up – easer on shorter climbs but that’s really the trick on a climb of any length: keep the tempo moving, the the pedals going around at the same speed.
We reach for the gears all the time, but they just use their guns to move over it. I am doing the same thing now and my leg strength is noticeably better after doing it for two years. There are many routes in Seattle that I rarely use the 39, let alone the 39×25. I do use it on the steep stuff, but its incredible what you can power over that I had previously assumed I had to downshift for. Including short 20% grades when you carry enough speed into them. That will get the out-of-towners on the back foot!
@meursault
Yep, many a ride I get to the finish and wish Id gone harder at various spots. The key for me is to not got bat shit crazy too early. Then hopefully the brain takes over and remember to go harder when others do. Too many times ive put the clutch in and spun when could have easily stayed in same gear and cranked over.
So definately a head thing I think most days.
Heres me Pantaniing a KOM point in a race. It was a brutal headwind and I’m convinced the fact I can climb in the drops helped me win that one. Plus I look fantastic, please excuse a couple of minor rule transgressions…..
@VeloVita, @Owen
The VMH rides some compact bars and loves them. Small hands, rides a 53cm vs my 61cm and I think in comparison it offers her the same proportionate drop between tops and drops as I get. So I think they are bars that make sense for sure, but you do lose the benefit of having a third stage between tops and drops at the hoods. Maybe they should make shorter levers for that?
@Stephen
There is one hill in particular where I really use this and the focus has to be 100% on maintaining the tempo. It is just long enough and just steep enough at the top that you will get fucked if you ease off at all. Staying in the drops really helps but you have to focus focus focus on the rhythm.
And yes, anyone who shifted will be fucked. At least until they catch back up to you just over the crown as you gasp and wheeze trying to regain your composure and can’t pedal because your legs are shaking so much.
I can’t take it any longer. Frank I don’t know what dilusional drugs you are on but come off the grass! Riding in the big ring is certainly NOT giving you a mechanical advantage over the small ring beyond losses due to the chain bending a tighter radius. The lever (crank arm) is less efficient when in the big ring since you have moved the mass closer to the work end of the lever. Don’t believe me? Go and get a stick, put one end on a table, hold the other end and hang a mass on it. The closer the mass is to your hand the more force you have to apply to the stick to keep it level to the point where the mass is at your hand and the lever is doing nothing. At the other extream, when the mass is at the pivot point of the lever, the force at your hand is zero (ignoring the mass of the lever) If you want to ride in the big ring because it’s pro fine, but that’s the only reason to.
Which brings me to cadence. I will say at the start that I am firm believer in people finding their own natural cadence, be it high or low. Having said that, why would you want to load your muscles up when your form (fitness) is poor? If you do that your muscles will fatigue fast (and recover slowly) and your lack of fitness become obvious a little later down the road. I am of the opinion that spinning is the solution in that case. Your legs will survive the pace much longer and your cardiovascular will recovery significantly faster so why not load them? I have shown this to be the case on numerous occasions chasing faster wheels up hills. I will give you this is dependat on the ride. I will conceed that on a slowe(er) ride where folks are powering up short, lower gradient hills to keep the speed stable, your legs will have time to recover since the pacer after the hill is low. If the power is the constant, ie power up hills, and continue to do so on the other side with no reprieve, loading you legs will see you in trouble fast.
@geoffrey
I’m so glad someone took the bait. Do both and get good at both. But climbing in the big ring is very good for building leg strength and that pays off on the long run.
As for gear inches is gear inches, read the literature – this simply is not the correct physically. There are gains and losses in chain tension, friction from bending the links (horizontally and radially, leverage, and a multitude of other factors that play into it. All the math says the gains are negligible at best, but also that if there is an advantage, it is riding big-big versus small-small to get to the same gear length.
Man, I don’t know. There’s very few people that can assume this position for an extended period (pro or amateur) effectively. I’m not saying don’t try it on for size for awhile, and if it helps, fantastic. I suppose it’s about showing people options that they haven’t thought of before to break up the glorious monotony that’s being a “climber”. I’ve put some considerable time into trying to emulate Pantani, and it just doesn’t work for me.
On the tops, or hoods worked for these guys, so it goes for me.
@scaler911
If by “extended period,” you mean longer than tirty seconds, I’d say you’re on the side of the angels, sure.
@frank
You think there is at least, and I would have agreed with you until I read this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24550843
@frank Yeah, I have a 58 cm and the VMH has a 56. We’re both tall, but she definitely has a more sit up and beg position — lower saddle, higher bars. Of course, she rarely comes out of the big ring and her dad taught her how to throw a punch at an early age so in turn I rarely say anything about it. On standard bars her shift levers seem to do fine, but I agree if she changes over to compact bars shorter levers would 1) look better and 2) probably function better.
Hmm. The few times I’ve tried climbing in the drops it feels less stable (which makes no sense – as your centre of gravity is lower it should be more stable) with no more appreciable power. But a badass italian climber can’t be wrong, so I’ll give it another go.
@Endurimil
There is a major trend towards finding “neutral” positions, and I think there is a lot of merit in having one on the bike – a place where you can ride where there is no muscle tension etc: ultra comfortable.
But that should be one position, and the other positions should create a tension which results in leverage and therefore power. For me, I like my neutral position to be on the tops and from there I look for more tension in the other more aggressive positions. Not so much it causes pain or anything – I can ride in them all for hours on end, but the hoods and drops give the kind of pressure that allows me to find more power.
@freddy
@TommyTubs really blew my mind about the 17deg stems being a cm longer than advertized, but he’s right – I measured mine and the 14cm I’ve got on the Graveur is actually 15cm. Which is why the bike fits.
On a 73deg head tube (which the Cervelo’s have), its not negative, by the way; 73+17 = 90.
@The Grande Fondue
I think I’m in love with this guy while at the same time I feel irrationally and unjustifiably inadequate.
@PeakInTwoYears
Oh, excellent work!
@Daccordi Rider
Excellent. Top marks, aside from the EPMS and ISO Non-Sissy Standard-violation helmet cover. But the KOM’s are most likely due to the badass climbing style.
@scaler911
Those are such awesome pictures. Definitely whatever works for you, but are you on the tops when you accelerate? I’m genuinely curious – doesn’t work for me for shit.
To your other point, I’m not suggesting you ride l’Alpe out of the saddle in the drops – I’m suggesting you try to hit them when you need a bit of extra power.
Nice play on the last photo.
@Puffy
Did it hurt when they removed your sense of humor?
@sthilzy
YES! I have the Merckx ttt bend on the steel, similar in most ways to your Cinelli’s. Great fucking bars.
@Buck Rogers
Ah, crap. There goes my EPO test theory.
@Der Hammer
Um…why did you specify FROGS? I feel like I should put a strip of tape over my webcam.