Reverence? Tubs
We can mimic the pros in many ways; kit, bikes, shaving our legs. Even if we’ll never ride like them, we can try (mostly in vain) to look like them. We’ll buy a piece of equipment because our favourite pro endorses it, or even adopt trends that the peloton have, such as alloy classic bend bars, slamming a 140mm stem, or putting those plastic sticky things across the bridge of our noses (yep, I actually did this in the mid 90’s when Tinker Juarez was rocking them on the mtb World Cup circuit. It didnt help a bit, and I looked like a twat). There are many pro traits that are certainly frowned upon and should never be attempted, like wearing the rainbow bands or maillot jaune. Then there are things we would love to be able to do, like snort cocaine with 18 yo models, but there’s as much chance of that as Cav finishing the Vuelta. And finally, there’s things that we can do, but are probably too cautious or conservative to do.
Like running tubs.
We know that every pro bike has the tyres glued to the rims, but how many of us actually own a set of tubs? How many would like to own a set? How many get the fear of Merckx put up them at the mere thought of getting caught miles from home with a flat? Ok, I hear you say, they’re only for racing, but how many of us are good enough to benefit from the reduced chance of a pinch flat on the cobbles, or the decreased rolling resistance from a 100 gram weight saving? I’m not seeing many hands… anyone, anyone? But still, I want some!
I’ve been on a mission to find a light set of wheels for Il Profetta, and scouring eBay and TradeMe has coughed up quite a few sets of tubs. Some going pretty cheap too. Several times I’ve been poised to push the ‘buy now’ button, but like a kid too scared to jump into the river from the highest bridge in town, I keep pulling back from the edge. It’s like, I might hit the water wrong and break my neck, but probably won’t. At worst, my shorts might fall down while scrabbling back up the bank to dry land, with the other kids pointing and laughing. It’s a risk I’m not willing to take. Clinchers are like having extra-strong elastic in the trunks, plus a drawstring for back up. Tubs on a punter’s bike are like a pair of Speedos on a fat bastard.
Just as I was ready to give up the idea of tubs altogether, we received an impassioned email out of the blue from an enthusiastic sew-up fan going by the moniker of “Tubolari”. He suggested in no uncertain terms that it was less than hardcore to ride clinchers or even to use tyre levers to remove them. The most surprising thing was, he wasn’t a grizzled old Italian mechanic or former Belgian domestique, but has only been riding for a year. Is it merely a case of wet-behind-the-ears zeal, or is he onto something? Should we all be digging out under the house and storing a stash of tubulars in there to age them? Let’s see…
Tubolari’s reasons for riding tubulars:
- You get to say you ride tubulars with a smug grin.
- It is an appropriate procedure to simply ask for tubulars in determining whether or not a bike shop is a REAL bike shop even if you don’t plan on buying tubulars.
- Tubulars are generally relegated to the lightly used sections of a store thus making you more hardcore because you need to blow dust off of the packaging just to read the specs that you’ve already read online.
- Personally, I use tape (Velox Jantex 76 Competition tubular tape) and that pretty much takes the hassle out of it. I think though, it makes me less hardcore than those who use glue.
- I love it when a machine breaks (tubbie flats), it shows that a machine is just as vulnerable as a human. I love to bring my machine back to working order like a doctor. It also gives me a reason to don my Campy cap and sing Italian tunes like in Breaking Away.
- Subjective qualities:
- I take a corner at speed with tubs (Gommitalia Challenge $30 a pop) and feel the bump (I begin to panic) but the tubbies have already deflected around the rock and I’m safe, I grin and press on.
- I take a corner at speed with clinchers (Continental Grand Prix 3000, $75 a pop) and feel the the bump (I begin to panic) and jump about what feels like half a foot sideways (I check my shorts, they are dry), I press on.
- I joined a charity ride as a volunteer (ride guide), I am the official tubular tire repair/changer mechanic and get my own car, walky talky and office. The office I use will be for participants to drop off their tires and wheels for spares so I can SAG them on the ride. Not bad for starting road biking last year right?
- Piling spare tubs in your jersey gives others a conversation piece when on tours with your local club.
- Merckx rode tubulars so it seems only fitting ;).
- Tubulars are like wine, you like some, you don’t like others. Some go well with Steel and some go well with Carbon Fiber.
Some compelling points for sure, and it’s hard to argue with his passion. Or is it? Keeper Gianni loves an argument, and can refute the strongest of opinions with a sneer, or just by hitting the reply button;
Yeah, yeah, senor Tubolari, talk to me in a year when you have peeled off, opened up, patched, re-sewn, re-glued, and re-glued more a bunch of tubolaris. Sure you may get laid more often riding tubulars, but trying to get a girl’s bra off with all that tubasti glue on your mitts is tough.
I’ve done my time with them and moved on, tubless road clinchers is where I’m heading, the great beyond. Come with me.
Cheers, Gianni
Think I’m gonna sit on the fence on this one for a while longer, and leave my pro tyre-emulation to these or these for now…
last dopey question….
if you change a tub and don’t glue it on, can you still go round corners (in terms of getting home, or will it roll off?)
promise I’ll go to the LBS and actually look at one before asking any more questions
finished my circuit race in the sprint bunch without getting spat out the back for the first time last night, so feel like doing something Pro like – this tub malarky is thus of much interest, so long as I don’t end up in a field with my tyres wrapped in my brake blocks
I think I had the worst ride of my life yesterday. 95F – chasing my Cat 2 and 3 through the rollers when my trapezium muscles start seizing up. After a while I could hardly hang on to the bars and I had terrible hot foot in both feet. It was a miserable hour ride back home but I wanted to get off the bike so bad that I pushed as hard as I could to shorten the time on the bike. Must have been the clinchers.
@Dr C
As long as you aren’t Ricky Road Racering it you should be fine to get home. But in reality your spare tub should be preglued anyway. Air it up, put some glue on it, let it sit for 24 hours and then deflate it and fold it up and stuff it in your jersey pocket. No worries.
@Dr C
And you lot think that a stone is something that is found around your midsection, when it’s actually something found on the bank of a river! Talk about confusing.
Good job on the race, though!
@mcsqueak
Ya, that route’ll put you out a ways from home. I’ve actually only called in back up twice: Once when my Campa ‘self-extrating’ cranks self extracted, and didn’t have a 7.5mm hex with me and once when it started snowing (34f and wet snow) and I was 65K from home shaking so bad I couldn’t stay on the bike.
I grew up as a rider in the 80’s in New England training and racing on tubulars. (Cheap Clements for training and sweet Vittorias for racing.) I agree that the modus of keeping a tubular with an old toe strap under your seat is de rigeur, and that fixing a flat by ripping off a tubular and then putting on the old one that you are carrying is at least as fast as fixing a clincher.
For the past couple of decades I have just been riding clinchers, but recently bought a set of wheels with Enve carbon tubular rims and Chris King racing hubs. I glued on a set of Veloflex tubs (when Vittoria moved to Taiwan someone took over the handmade tire business and calls it Veloflex). I actually enjoyed gluing the tires, going through the whole multi-day ritual nostalgically. Then on the first ride I was reminded of the pleasure of riding tubulars. Even the sound is better. Smooth… smooth… and the acceleration and cornering is truly better. Does this matter at my current fitness and speed? Probably not. Is it more enjoyable? Definitely.
Plus, in this years Marmotte, I was much faster than my peers on the descents. I agree that tubulars and knowing that you glued your own tires makes you faster in high speed corners.
From here on I will be riding Tubeless clinchers regularly, and tubulars on those special days.
Damnit, I kind of forgot how expensive Michelin latex tubes are, since I haven’t bought them in a few years. One for the price of three regular tubes. Oh well, I flat rarely and patch my tubes anyway. Now I need to figure out what to do with my stock of Conti butyl tubes.
Only called the VMH for a broom wagon once, around two years ago. Ripped off my RD on the Worst Shift of My Lifetime. The new-and-improved Velominati in me would single-speed that bastard and limp home.
I still haven’t felt the ambition of winter projects enter my body yet. Maybe it’s because I’m too excited for cx season. Frank, you might have to start clearing those vacations with the Followers before you head off. Then again, slipping out post Tour and during La Vuelta is pretty good timing!
@Dr C
you carry a spare tubular or you have a can of sealant or you suck it up and ride on the way back with a flat! Sometimes, it is just a slow leak and the tire can hold air for a while. Clincher flats are immediate. Not so with tubulars. And if you are not racing, you should not max out the inflation and ride them comfortably at 100psi……in my opinion
@Dr C
yes, you can ride a tubular without having to glue it. You may already have residue on your rim from previous tires mounted. Perhaps consider having a new tire that hasnt stretched as a spare. It will fit securely on your room and if it is a Conti, then by no means you will be able to ride with confidence into the corners beacuase they are very difficult to mount your rim.
@ Fredrik: perfectly said man
@ Dr C: if you flat out, like eddysboy said, you can limp home or replace.
lets face it, if you flat out w/tubular and its race day, your race is over, so if you put a dry tubular on, your just going home anyway and shouldn’t have to worry about the 55kph corners like cyclops is doing now days
Rouleur had a two-part piece on tubs once. There is no question whatsoever that it is the Velominatus’ Choice tire. Classic (it’s what Eddy rode), performs better, more versatile in case of a flat.
But definitely more trickier in terms of a every-day wheel from my viewpoint. That said, here is the correct way to fold and stow your pre-glued tub under your saddle, folded such that no glued part of the tire ever touches another glued part of the saddle. These photos came from Garick at SpeedyReedy.
@Ron
Sell them to me for $4 a pop.
@frank
That looks worse than any bag.
Cures all your ‘carrying ills’ boys
$4.95 at the LBS
@ChrisO
Sorry dude, the C#$ts upstairs were partying hard last night so that was a 2am post. MY only point is that tires wear out at the speed they wear out – worrying about it is a waste of time.
If I ever decide to ride tubbies on the road again, I would love to have Conti Competition’s in 25 mm (which are only available to the pro’s currently). A pair of Dugast Strada SP Cotton or Paris-Rubaix cotton I would like to try as well. And there are the legendary Veloflex tubulars. … Damn, the more I read the more I think that my next pair of road wheels might be for tubulars. (The alternative: if my 38 mm EDGE 2.0 survive the next CX season, I could glue some road tubbies onto ’em. I can still spend some more money if I feel a big difference to my clinchers with latex tubes and Conti 25 mm GP4000S …) But before I start gluing road tubbies myself, I will learn how to do it right from this guy. (He built my track bike already.) Because (as I and someone else mentioned), it is all about doing it right. The Tufo tape I use currently for my CX tubbies is not the proper choice for the road. And just start sniffing some glue vapor is not enough to get the job done right.
@Dr CSeriously? You’re admitting to carrying your tube down the front of your shorts? Have you considered using those pockets on your cycling jersey, or are you just trying to impress the ladies?
@frank
I’ve tired of that game; too many mistakes, not enough time. And I was only picking on you because you are supposed to be the standard bearer.
@Oli
kills two birds with one stone
@grumbledook
+1 for the Continentals. My favorite race tubulars of all time (23c).
Before that I always had Vittoria Corsa CXs, but after time, the gum binder would wear off the cotton sidewalls.
The Contis had a rubbery sidewall that was far more supple and thus rolled and cornered better. Oh the grip.
@paolo
No it doesn’t. Take that for a winning argument!
@Souleur
Cut it out. Bidon cages are for bidons.
Glue also used to be one of my bugbears.
I hated Vittoria glue. The red stuff was crap. It would dry out, go all crusty and lose it's tack.
I used to buy whole tubs of Wolber cement. It was just like rubber cement, clear so no ugly red goop on your sidewalls and remained tacky ever after. Probably doesn't exist any more.
The adhesive tape sounds fascinating.
Sigh, I'm a looong way from getting tubulars again.
What the…
I’m number one?
Geez, spend some time in a leaders jersey by dodgy means and get an upgrade.
My doping regime seems to be paying off.
@mouse
In my experience those jerseys tend to give one a big mouth.
@paolo
Except its not a bag; it’s a tire. Which is, when tied to your saddle with a toe strap is totally OK. Still looks worse than nothing up under thur, but awesome is awesome…not much we can do about it.
@mouse
Well played!! You win.
@frank
There is at least one too many “is” in your reposte. Is the plural of “is” “is’s” or “is” or “isi” Anyways just thought I’d point it out since theres been a lot of that sort of stuff going on recently. And damn it man stop wasting watts on typing!! You know you should be riding!
ps I’m sticking to my beautiful dura ace clinchers with conti GP4000’s so there!
@Oli
There’s your mistake right there. I can hardly be bothered to spell check the articles. Once it’s up and I’m posting, I’m as bas as the rest of you lot. You should see my emails.
I used to actually endeavor to edit everyone’s posts for grammar and spelling but…that is impossible. When it was five posts to an article it was one thing, but now…
I have used 3M Fast Tack for all my tubular gluing. It is very easy to use and very quick to do if one gets the proper technique.
1. Run a small bead of it on the center of the tire’s base tape, do so in roughly 18 inch sections and rub it gently with one finger to spread it thinly and evenly on the tape before going to the next section, put aside.
2. Holding the wheel in one hand rotate it until you can’t turn your hand any more then run a bead around the entire rim in one motion from the valve hole back to the valve hole down the center of the rim. If done right you end up with the right amount that does not drip (newspaper on the floor for beginners).
3. Put the tire on starting at the valve and working it on evenly until the last bit (making sure to get it on centered as you go), then holding the rim valve down with your Feet (toes are best, I kid you not) slip on the last bit with good upward pressure to make sure it goes on without squeegeeing the bead of Fast Tack off the center of the rim. By doing this the tire has been seated directly over the bead and when it seats down the bead is squeezed out evenly to each side.
This may sound complicated but it is not and the end result is a tire that is put on in under 10 minutes and can be ridden in a few hours. 3M Fast Tack is a very strong industrial contact cement, by having the tire layer thin and drying as you put the rim bead down you are starting the “contact” process but with a small grace period provided by the wet bead on the rim. As the tire squeezes the rim bead you will see little bits of Fast Tack come out either side showing that the whole tire is glued. It will stet up very fast but will be incredibly strong indefinitely and remain pliable so that when you do take it off it is still tacky.
I wanna see what that tubular looks like after spending a few hours under the saddle – riding in the rain. I’d imagine one road grit coated, sticky ass mess…
@Dan O
It as bad as you might think.
The secret is how you fold it.
Get all the air out, divide in half with the valve stem at one end.
Start folding with the glue side up, rubber down where the glue always contacts the tread.
Make sure it’s done as tight and evenly as possible and you’ll find that road grits not such a problem.
Besides, if it gets too filthy, you could always put the tire in your jersey pocket.
@Dan O
Living in the PNW, mouse is right. Better yet, when the conditions start to suck, switch to the clinchers. I actually wouldn’t advocate for having only sew-ups. I have a buddy that only rides tubs, but, much like russian roulette, eventually you’re going to lose. Probably when it’s 3C out and pouring rain.
Love riding them, but I try to be savvy about running them.
Brett, you are obviously still in nappies yes that’s right NAPPIES…just as Mr Merckx rode SINGLES!!! yes that’s right sew up tyres are SINGLES always have been and always will be….you namby pamby new wave hipster twits who jump on the tour train and become blinded by “efforts, intervals and watts” fail to recognise the historical importance of cycling culture and offend those who have ridden before you by failing to follow correct protocol in bike speak…SINGLES and HIGH PRESSURES. These are the types of tyre available to “racers” “tubulars & clinchers” are for the uneducated “blinded by lance” types….get with the progam and show some respect for those of us who have gone before.
@cam
Yes, and…?
Way to miss the entire point of this website in your first post.
Can you please point me to the ‘blinded by Lance’ section? bet there’s some guys who fucken hate his guts if he blinded them…
@cam
PS in case you missed it there is zero love here for ranting internet fuckwits. Which is you. Tubulars anyone? Tubular? You sir, Tubular?
@Rob
I used 3M Fast Tack for many years, until a rear tire unexpectedly tore off on a 50 kph descent. I rode it out on a fricking new naked Mavic Reflex rim. The solvents in 3M Fast Tack can get through the base tape and weaken the glue holding the base tape to the tire. I use Vittoria Tubs with Vittoria Mastik only now. Lennard has an article that discusses this.
@cam
Hi Cam
I started racing in 1983 on TUBULARS. Pretty sure Lance wasn’t racing yet then.
That’s what we called them in Canadia.
I only found out that some people in other countries called them singles when I moved to Australia.
I always thought TUBULARS was far more descriptive.
Funny how this interweb thingy is international and that different words mean different things to some people.
Whereas I might call you fanny face, minion might call you cunt face. Just as an example mind.
Stick around. You might learn something.
@cam
Shit, is it that obvious?
@cam
You don’t miss a trick, do you?
@cam
Ah. I see… someone needs to get laid! Don’t worry, there’s a first time for everything, and like your first time here, you’ll probably disappoint whoever you’re trying to fuck.
@cam
You idiot. They aren’t called singles, tubulars, high pressures or clinchers in French, Flemish or Italian, so there’s no way that Eddy Merckx would have used any of those terms. We use those terms, or regional variations, because we speak English.
@mauibike
I googled that stuff, and the bike related result quoted Calvin Harris from Park tool and the chemist that tests tubular glue on behalf of Park Tool. sounds like it’s ok for training tires, better tires not so much.
@Oli
@Minion
@brett
@mouse
Velominate – 4, visitors – 0
Well, yeah. This ain’t no stinkin democracy.
And I was starting to think this conversation lacked something. You can’t discuss tubs on the internet without attracting some interesting people.
@ChrisO
you got me, bro! The weight was arbitrary from experience seeing Large Marge’s like you wear shit out faster even with less saddle time. Thanks for the kick to lighten up! It must be what I read here. I go bi-polar sometimes!
Hmmm. Catching up.
Tub/single/sew-up (hereinafter referred to as “tyre”) under seat with toe strap. Hipster shit. Put it in a small plastic bag in your saddle bag. Takes up about the same amount of space and will keep tyre (and pre-glued base tape) clean and dry. Goes on better in the wet. You can also leave your CO2 inflator in there.
I like the ritualistic nature of the gluing process. Its a bit like mowing the lawn or ironing a shirt. Not intellectually challenging but a process that cannot be rushed (unless you want to compromise the outcome). Or maybe I just like the smell of the glue. Tape is obviously faster.
I have found some 28h Ambrosio F20s. Very tempted to do so following this debate. Only downside is no machined braking surface.
this is a germane subject for me. I’m still sulking having been stiffed by a COTHO on a NOS GP4 wheelset, I’ve hit the wall. So much choice. I know GP4’s (Gold Label) are the dog’s bollox, but can anyone suggest anything else. Nisi Corsa Stretto, Campy Lamda Strada, p’haps?
@Nof Landrien
Whoa, whoa waaaait just a minute there fella.
Characterizing the well established method of affixing a folded tyre to the underside of ones saddle as hipster shit is downright wrong and insulting.
Hipsters by definition are traditionalists who believe they’re iconoclasts. They’re sadly deluded, and they do it in skinny jeans and with a soul patch. WTF is up with that?
Now, I hate hipsters just as much as the next right thinking member of society, and so to suggest that they somehow have cornered the market on clever methods of attaching bits to your bike with toe straps, well, I’m speechless.
Now as to your suggestion that tyres may be placed in a saddle bag in lieu of the ‘correct’ way, it may be useful to meditate on Rule #29.
@cam
Whilst this was not directed at me (and Mr. Brett is perfectly capable of defending himself), I’ve been riding and wrenching since ’88. And, while I’m not as versed in cycling history as Frank, Oli and some other folk, I do know my shit. I have no idea WTF a single is, except something you put up on the rack at a strip club.
And, here’s some hipster for you:
My apologies to those that saw this before.
@mouse
Traditionalists who believe they are iconoclasts? Careful, all we need is a Rule #86 about skinny jeans and you’ll send us all into a downward spiral toward hipsterdom. Isn’t emulating the pros of yesteryear simply because they were more badass than anyone today the definition of traditionalism for the sake of iconoclasm.
By the way, I have officially changed my plan for my new build from Open Pros to Reflexes, and I have no good reason for it, apart from the fact that I now see it is the only way.
On the occasions when I’m running the tubs sans wheel car I carry the spare in the center jersey pocket. I can’t bring myself to strapping it under the seat and destroying the aesthetics of the 586.
@Cyclops
But then again, the very fact that I’m ON the 586 accomplishes this.
@scaler911
eheh… great…
@frank
WTF are you doing looking at a “Multi-Sport and Tri Supply” website? I’m extremely disappointed.
I think we should have a jersey for internet fuckwit of the moment. They seem to come ’round every could of weeks, try to stir up some trouble, then disappear. I’d kind of like to see one wheelsuck long enough to incur a real good smashing from the Followers, or just from the hands of Oli;)
Hmm, traditionalists who believe they are iconoclasts. Damn, this explains a lot to me. I have scratched my head in the past wondering why the hell you’d want to look like a fuckload of other people. Undersized denim, Vans, keys on belt loop, undersized t-shirt/v-neck “fashion” t with some shit puked on it, shaggy hair, unshaven, apathetic. Now I think I’ve got it.
Speaking of tight denim, um…Nalini is bringing back the faux denim bib shorts of the Carrera era. I observe a Zero Denim Rule, but I think I can’t resist Lycra that looks like denim. Count me in.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/07/07/when-words-fail-nalini-reintrouduce-carrera-denim-cycling-kits/
Functional pockets?! On bibs?!
@Cyclops
I think Frank may be “tri-curious”! *snort*