Descendeur
We close out the 6 Days of the Giro with our sixth and final installment.
A body at rest, stays at rest. A body in motion, stays in motion. Things get a bit more ambiguous when it comes to a body on a bicycle tearing down a twisty mountain descent at speed, particularly in the rain. But it is here, on the boundary between clarity and ambiguity, where things get interesting.
Cornering feels a bit like you’re stealing from Physics, as if you’re getting away with something. Momentum, as fundamental as it is, doesn’t know what’s good for us and stubbornly wants to carry us on its merry path. The faster we go, the bigger its influence becomes and the harder we push against it, balancing on the knife’s edge between our body’s lean and the bike’s pull. For those skilled in this craft, the bicycle and rider carve through the bend in perfect harmony.
I’m not particularly good at cornering, which is to say I’m not particularly good at descending. Its a shame, too, because given my size I’m not very good at climbing, either. The way to get better is to practice, and not to give Rule #64 too much thought. You will crash if you want to get better, but you mustn’t lose your nerve. A nervous descender is a bad descender and everyone knows where to find bad descenders.
The riders getting the most practice in this discipline must surely be les grimpeurs for it seems they would be riding down all those mountains they’re riding up. The surprising truth is that this does not always appear to be the case; one need look no farther than Andy Schleck to find evidence of that particular postulate. Furthermore, one would think that a professional, who by the very nature of their occupation is quite used to finding themselves on the tarmac, would be most able to come off and not lose their nerve. This, also, doest not always appear to be the case.
The Giro, known for its narrow mountain roads, is won as much on the descents as it is on the climbs. Who can forget the 1988 Giro, which was won on the descent of the Gavia, not its climb. Or the 2002 and 2005 editions when Il Falco used every millimeter of road as he swept through the hairpin bends to distance his rivals. This year, Brad Wiggins had already put himself on the back foot on GC when he came off on a slow bend and spent the rest of the stage riding like his tires were made of glass. On the same stage, Nibali attacked and came off on a high speed corner before jumping back on his machine and rejoining the leaders moments later. The difference is a question of not only skill, but fearlessness.
The only reason to go up a hill, is to go down it as fast as fucking possible. Grippy rubber and lack of self preservation are the keys.
I always find it amazing what goes through my mind as I descend at really high speeds. “Which portion of the ditch I should fly towards if I flat? Keep pedaling till your spun out! If Ihit the deck, how far I will slide before the pavement eats through my jersey? Can I break 100km’s per hour? How do I correct a speed wobble? 90 km’s an hour doesn’t seem this fast in a car! I wonder where I can stop for coffee…”
I love descending for the sheer thrill of riding the line between reckless abandon and shitting your bibs with fear.
This is a mysterious image and article — and I like it — a lot. Since better cornering truly started with me after building up the MX Leader, I can only add that frame geometry and wheelbase will add or detract from the whole experience.
Great article….personally I love descending, but I am relative novice and have not crashed enough to learn any better. My …above 65kph…generally are “if I come off now this won’t hurt immediately, I will just be pretty badly injured” but it does not stop me from loving the adrenaline rush.
One thing I love, as a Clydesdale, is that I descend fucking fast…friends, grimpeurs, and cycling Sinsei who smile sweetly at me as they dance pass on the climb and soft pedal at the top, feel the rush of compressed air as the howling banshee comes screaming past them on the descent freewheeling as they spin out frantically.
At the bottom they look at me quizzically trying to understand the huge childlike beaming smile on my face….right until the road turns upwards once more and hell returns!
Great read as always, another important part of the pro peloton seems to be their ability to take a fall. We saw the first week of the Giro a Nibali sliding through the tarmac as much as 7 meters, quickly picking himself up and continue with his madness! Hard men.
@Tobin From the memory of an autodidact, not experience you put weight on the bars to stop a speed wobble.
@ Frank As a nervous descender I think you for this article. I’ve gotta Rule #9 this out of my psyche. It might also have something to do with a lack of confidence in the bike I ride which is two sizes too small. Soon though I’ll be finding out what it’s like to descend on a properly fitting carbon fibre masterpiece!
Maybe “autodidact” isn’t quite right. Been dying to use it in a sentence. What I meant was I’ve read about it, I haven’t ever experienced speed wobbles.
When I first started riding a bike, anything other than flat roads were intimidating to me. It wasn’t until I started riding in groups that my descending skills started to improve, mainly because it was the only way I could stick with the group in hilly terrain.
Now, despite losing 1/5th of my body weight, I descend faster than ever before. I’m still not a great climber but I’m probably one of the best descenders around, my time as a fatty taught me how to do it right.
A good, long descent, a hard earned one, is one of the best feelings for me on the bike. Oxygen is returning to the brain and muscles, the aero tuck slicing through the wind, hitting the apex just right. It all makes up for the pain from the climb to get there.
I had a ~200 meter gravel descent on my road bike yesterday. That was pucker-city. I thought I was going to eat shit a few times.
Wrong race, but this is how you descend.
I was meditating on this issue during last week’s mtb ride. It was an up-and-down out-and-back, and I was, again, confirmed in my feelings, a) that climbing–anything–on a mountain bike is revoltingly tedious drudgery, b) that descending on a mountain bike at an adequate speed is a fucking thrill, and c) that b) is a short road to hospitalization and reconstructive surgery. Sadly, as I age I think more about c).
I have a question about technique on the road. When I started riding again, it was after spending a few years riding a sport bike–please, we do not use the juvenile phrase “crotch rocket.” I read something last year about counter-steering through corners on a bicycle, and I thought “WTF?!” On a motorcycle, counter-steering is not optional, and at speed it’s done quite deliberately and sometimes forcefully, the mass of the spinning wheels making the machine want to stand up straight and cornhole innocent cyclists on Mulholland Dr.
But FFS, you can lean a bicycle easier than applying italics to text on a website.
Don’t you simply divide whatever weight is on your hands (and not on the outside pedal) evenly between left and right no matter which way you’re leaning the bike?
@PeakInTwoYears
My dad was a motorcycle rider and tought me to hold the bike up as vertical as possible when cornering.
Bike have a different problem, one of not having enough friction in the tires. When I started racing and learned quickly that what you want is to lean as hard as you can on your outside foot and push as hard as you can on your inside hand. That pushes the tires into the road and gives you grip.
Tubulars on the road bike probably stand out most when cornering, by the way. On clinchers, when the bike is leaning, you feel your grip really change as the tire deforms. On tubs, it seems that since they’re a tube already, the deformation is uniform and as you angle the tire, the grip stays just as good.
Heaven.
@Pedale.Forchetta
If I’d have known about that photo, I would have used that instead. Perfect.
One of the first things I thought when I saw that was, “I wonder if that bloke knows that road and where the bend will lead him.” That’s one thing I find for sure; if I don’t know a road, I’m sitting back and taking it easy.
@frank
Or this:
http://vimeo.com/48158576
I really love going downhill as fast as possible. It’s one of those things that as soon as I’m finished I want to try it again because I know I can correct some errors, or go a bit faster through certain corners.
Descendeur-ing always has me wanting to give it another go.
(one frustrating thing is how many corners I ride are gravel/sand strewn or seem to always have a car coming – it’s not often enough that I get to really corner a corner, ya know?)
@Steampunk
That’s just crazy – on open roads too!
@wiscot
It’s not so much the speed that gets me, but the way in which he uses every millimetre of the road. Total comfort and confidence in that descent.
@Tobin – I have the same thoughts streaking through my head as well, especially the “where do I go if I flat…” Glad i’m not alone…lol
@Steampunk
And the condition of that road – its in horrible shape! I’d be descending on class tires too.
Or this one:
What I think is really cool is what the heat of the battle does for you. Since I’ve passed the half century mark my balls have gotten considerably smaller – especially when it comes to high speed descents. If I’m on a training ride and the speed creeps over 65kph I start getting on the binders because I see no need to go that fast for no reason. But then I go to a race and look at my Garmin post race and see 87kph and I don’t even recall thinking I was going fast. I was just consumed with chasing back on to all the bastards that dropped me on the climb.
@frank
Sure, that’s why you see the MotoGP guys weighting the inside peg and dragging the knee; it lets them keep it more upright with larger contact patches on the road.
So when you say “push as hard as you can on your inside hand,” you must mean weighting your inside hand, right? As in pushing it down, as opposed to pushing it forward and down, which would be the cycling equivalent of counter-steering, which would not make any sense to me. (But I’m always happy to be educated.)
And btw, I applaud your approach to blind corners.
@Steampunk That is skill and craziness in equal measure.
@snoov
Standby for the Cogal @snoov. I’m not the greatest at descending at all but I always get a speed wobble descending off Cairn O Mount, usually approaching 75kph if my wireless computer can actually record that speed reliably. VDO proving to be disappointing at high speed. I find pressing the inner thigh against the top tube helps along with increasing the tuck slightly. A motivator for keeping it in check is always meeting traffic as I flow round the corners.
Its similarly challenging on the continent as I’m busy looking for a line and on the ‘wrong’ side of the road. One moments lapse in concentration could prove messy. Practice does help along with decent tyres and a healthy respect for not damaging the bike or walking home…. I keep a picture in my head of lying in 6″ of stank water a ditch not able to reach the phone in my back pocket because the collar bone has gone and I’ve smashed the screen anyway. Shaves a few kph off.
Still bloody good fun though.
@frank
Yep: I was going to post that, but feared it might be “predictable” coming from me…
@PeakInTwoYears
Not really. I may be doing it wrong, but I mostly use pressure like I would when downhill skiing fast. If I’m wanting to turn right, I lean the bike some to the right and apply pressure to my left pedal, as if it was the inside edge of my “outboard” ski.
Like Frank, I’m faster on decent’s that I’m familiar with, but will uncork it usually regardless. The only thing that freaks me out much is pea gravel on the road and leafs. Wet doesn’t bother me too much either.
@scaler911
That makes total sense to me. I’m going to stop worrying about my hands and just focus on weighting the outside pedal and finding the fore-and-aft sweet spot for my center of gravity. I remember enjoying descending very much, but I haven’t yet re-experienced much of that feeling of “flow.”
I’m embarrassed to admit it, but I only recently realized the inside hand/outside foot pressure technique makes things much, much easier. My corner has gotten significantly better since I’ve focussed on those two things.
And not having much of an off-road background means that a few years of CX riding/racing has really helped me out too. Not only in the skills but the confidence.
@PeakInTwoYears
Back in the 90’s, I learned that cornering thru 90deg corners in crits, it made sense to keep the bike more upright pressing on the opposite drop from the direction of the turn, sorta “steering” the bike thru the corner, rather than leaning the bike and coasting thru it. That allowed you to pedal without skipping your pedal of the pavement causing you to crash, or coasting, causing you to lose a couple places through each corner. But that was before compact framesets and super low profile pedals (like Speedplays). Now it seems you can pedal and lean in most corners that are 90deg or less, especially if you’ve chosen a good line into the apex.
@frank after that corner…
@frank That video of Spartacus is a straight clinic on descending. it should be mandatory watching for everyone getting a bike.
The important things aside from weighting the outside pedal and pushing down with the inside bar are (1) get in the drops to get low; (2) brake before the turn; and (3) start wide, and hit the apex so you can take the right line on the exit. The reason (2) is important is that your tires only have so much traction. That traction can go to accelerating, braking, or cornering. So ideally you get the braking done before the corner. Another way to focus on this is the idea is not to enter the turn with as much speed as you can carry, but exiting the turn with as much speed as you can carry.
@snoov
That, and gripping the top tube with your knees helps.
@frank
The difference between motorcycles and bikes is the distribution of mass within the rider/vehicle system. For a given speed/turn radius/condition/corner there is a certain angle that the center of gravity must be kept above relative to the surface. With a bike most of the mass is the rider so you want to keep that more above the contact patches and let the geometry of the bike cause the turning. Countersteering is part of what makes the turn, but it doesn’t have to be drastic, just a little thought and pressure, more for a sharper turn. Looking through the corner is a major thing as well.
@Ron
I found a sweet descent the other day, cut into the side of the mountain instead of just going straight up Pennsylvania style. Glass smooth surface, a bunch of consecutive turns, secluded away in a forest. Ended up doing a bunch of repeats because it was just so much fun.
@scaler911
That is how I go through gravel corners, as well as when I am standing and cornering.
@Nate
Now I’m back to hands again… Given that downward forces on the front tire have to come through the steerer, does weighting the inside bar really load the tire differently from weighting both sides equally? (I’m not saying it doesn’t, just trying to understand.)
The rest of your post I totally get and have practiced on both bicycles and motorcycles, and I am still alive and ambulatory. (Knock on wood.)
@PeakInTwoYears
It isn’t weighting per se, more to do with using the geometry of the bike to cause a turn through countersteering. From what I’ve seen/read no one has been able to conclude how exactly bikes steer/balance. (Scientific studies by Universities and such) Just try it, a little goes a long way.
@DerHoggz
Boy, I’ll say. A 400-pound motorcycle underneath me feels a lot different from a 17-pound Cannondale. I have never, not once, been tempted to skooch my ass off the inside of a bicycle in a turn!
There’s also a rather ginormous difference in the directional stability imparted by the two different kinds of wheels.
@DerHoggz
So we ARE talking about counter-steering a bicycle…! I have tried it, lately, and “a little goes a long way” is an understatement to someone used to counter-steering a motorcycle.
@PeakInTwoYears
on a sportbike, you shouldnt be weighting the inside peg. rather, your outside thigh should be hugging the gas tank. and the dynamic is much different, since as you stated you can slide completely off the bike, to the point where the elbows are making contact with the asphalt.
the inside knee isnt really being dragged along either, and doesnt serve as a contact point per se. it’s a feeler, like the whiskers of a cat. that’s not to say lowsides havent been brought under control by the use of knees, but it’s not a great practice to get into.
and somewhere someone was talking about countersteer, and that action on a motorbike is more of a push on the inside bar, not a pull on the outer.
@PeakInTwoYears I think it might do more for leaning the bike. I honestly don’t know the theory, I have just observed that it is a common piece of advice, and one that I find very helpful.
@PeakInTwoYears
Never drove a motorcycle, but I can imagine. You probably do it without realizing from experience on a motorcycle, it is just counter-intuitive to not steer into the corner unless you are told.
There’s an article on counter steering in Issue 9 of Cyclist
. Max Glaskin states – In order to turn right it’s first necessary to turn to the left…by twitching your bars to the left your mass will automatically fall to the right, as the bicycle is essentially steering out from underneath you.Having shifted your mass to the right, you then need to “catch” the bike…You do this by turning the handlebars back towards the corner you wish to make, bringing the bicycle back underneath you.
It ends with a quote from Foggy – It’s all about throwing the bike over on its side and hoping it sticks there.
My understanding is that bicycle turns are also initiated by counterstearing, but that the effect is so subtle that it is pretty much automatic. Then again, I don’t ride motos, so I don’t have that basis of comparison.
@roger
I agree with most of that but not all. I was in the habit of both weighting the inside peg and using the outside thigh on the tank. Nick Ienatch, in Sport Riding Techniques, describes the rationale for doing both: basically, that both assist with counter-steering. I got to the point that I was comfortable steering with just those two inputs on mildly twisty roads.
With regard to knee “dragging,” I agree–and I assure you I was not leaning the bike that much (because I couldn’t afford track days, which was the only context in which I would have ridden that hard).
The fastest I’ve ever gone on a descent was 102kph, if I can (could) believe my long-deceased Avocet 30. This was on the road stage of the Tour d’Olean, in New York state circa mid 90s.
The thought of going that fast on my bike now scares the shit out of me; hence, I am a shit descender, and the wheel to be avoided.
Thanks for bringing back that memory of my racing days.
I found this useful
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/descending-tips/
I have tried leaning the bike and sitting more upright, odd but effective.
Great article and very timely participate I completed a hilly imperial century last weekend and whilst I’m too fat to climb I found I could make up the deficit when the gradient pointed downwards.
Nothing gets my head buzzing more than a fast decent tempting myself to leave he brakes alone and bask in the free(ish) velocity afforded by Sir Isaac Newton. This is of course until I crash badly and then require facial reconstructI’ve surgery.
To not make the most of the descents is to throw away the amazing payoff for all the hulking away on the bars whilst chewing the stem on the way up.
I’m sure that more often than not I can hear myself screaming on the way down.
Going as fast as humanly possible fucking rules, until it all goes wrong. Very quickly.
My issue is, here in SE WI it takes less than 30 seconds to descend any hill we have. Most are dead straight too.I was in Dubuque last year and rode up one of the bluffs. Coming down was pretty terrifying – I just wasn’t used to the speed and a few corners. For those with nice descents, consider yourselves lucky!
@Nate I’d say you’re probably right in that there is some countersteer but it’s minuscule.
Round here it’s too flat to spend any time descending and when I do it tends to be a fairly subconscious process (a good thing too given the complete lack of spare oxygen kicking around in my blood stream).
I tend to worry more about the approach to the corner than what goes on in the corner – if you get the former right the latter follows on smoothly, fuck it up and there’s little you can do once you’re in. When I was younger and braver (or dafter) I spent a summer holiday working as a MC courier in London, one of the lads lent me a police motorcycle instructors handbook that had a section on the converging or vanishing point that helps you judge your speed in relation to the approaching corner; if it’s coming towards you, you’re going too fast; stationary, you’ve got it just right and going away, you’re too slow. It’s great for improving your ability to read a corner. All the stuff about exiting corners is less applicable but it’s real worth to a cyclist is as an indicator of how tight a corner is in relation to your speed and giving you warnings of decreasing radius. If you think you’ve got your entry speed right and then find out that the radius decreases (corner gets tighter) when your already deep into it, you could be in trouble. With VP, you’ll get more warning.
It’s one of the most useful things I’ve learnt in terms of riding and driving.
@PeakInTwoYears
Not forward, as it seems to me that would be to the greater benefit of momentum and serve its purposes, not ours, which is getting around the bend safely.
I am in love with speed and cornering. My dad bought me a R100RS before my 16th birthday, right before I started racing bikes. When he saw me cornering and descending, he sold the bike, saying I would have a longer life that way. Broke my heart.
I suspect he was also right. By the time I was 17 I had been in the ER several times on account of my cornering confidence.
At this point, I’ve paid enough such visits to hospitals to learn that descending is a thrill that is not outweighed by a few weeks or months off the bike.
I still like to go fast when I feel the odds are in my favor.
@Tobin
Dude, that’s like thinking about how much longer the climb is, or Wile E Coyote looking down. Fucking focus on the descent. As soon as you get a flat or break your forks, your plan is going out the window anyway. Mike Tyson has a quote about this thats relevant that I’m not willing to look up.
@Nate
I make a point, by the way, to descend in the drops – much safer. Your weight is lower, you have better access to the brakes, and you are less likely to lose your grip when you hit a blind bump. Jen’s crash in the Tour a few years back was, in my opinion, avoidable just by riding the drops. (Not embedding this vid as it is a bummer to watch.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxNzgTlqdEg
TDF 2011, stage 19 ITT, Cadel belting down descent on TT bike getting airborne!