Climbing Tips for the Non-Climber
I’m a non-climber who enjoys climbing. I’d enjoy it more if I was good at it. And “enjoy” might be too strong a word, “tolerate” might be better. But dragging 89 kilos up a volcano gives one time to contemplate the cycling life .
Let us define non-climber. It’s someone either too fat, too big (gravitationally challenged) or a fast- twitching sprinter. Not liking to suffer does not make you a non-climber. As the moto camera drifts down the peloton on the Ventoux, it’s still the guys at the back who are dying the worst. Finishing within the time limit for the non-climber requires a trip deep into the cave-o-pain.
For the cyclist, the power-to-weight ratio (watts generated/body weight in kg) is king, especially when the road goes up. A large improvement in the power side of the formula is tough, we have already chosen our damn parents and cursed inheriting their vestigial hearts and lungs. Yes, this number should be honed to its finest edge, it can be nudged up but not a lot.
The weight side of the equation is completely changeable and under our control.
Lose some weight, you fat bastards. Yes, I’m talking to you. The most important thing to improve climbing, by far, is to lose some weight. Do you need dramatic proof? Put a known weight (2 liter bottles of water) into a knapsack and do a regular route. The hills will be bad, very bad. Now imagine losing that same two or four kilos. The difference can be just as impressive. When I’m at a decent riding weight, climbing out of the saddle for extended periods is not a problem. I’m still slow but gravity is not demanding I put my ass on the saddle. Losing body weight is free; one looks better on and off the bike. Your friends will hate you. What is the down side? Oh right, it takes self-control and not drinking as much alcohol as life requires.
Don’t carry extra weight on the bike. If you really don’t need a second large bidon, don’t carry that 0.8kg. That’s more than the difference between super-light climbing wheels and regular road wheels. For reasons I’ll never understand, a bike that is one kilo lighter seems noticeably faster than the one kilo saved from a bidon. So yes, N+1 can be invoked but it’s much cheaper to just leave that second bottle at home.
LeMan said the key to climbing was to relax…easy for him to say when he had the heart and lungs of three Velominati. But Rule #10 is Rule #10 so meditate on relaxing while dancing uphill. Find a little rhythm. Click up into a longer gear, pop out of the saddle, shift back down, park it back in the saddle.
Find a gear you can turn over comfortably. As we all know, Dr Ferrari was the one to get Lance to spin up climbs. It’s tough to know where the EPO stopped and the spinning started but it did seem to work for him. While some may argue for climbing in the big chainring, for us non-climbers, climbing in the saddle and spinning a gear will get us up faster and with less collateral damage.
The best part of climbing as a non-climber is that we are out there, doing it. The Stelvio, hell yeah, it’s going to take a little longer to get up there but we will do it. We don’t stop, we don’t put a foot down. We suffer like you-know-who on you-know-what but we still do it with a stupid smiles on our faces.
@ChrisO the “get a powermeter, hold XXX w/kg” response is pretty standard for Durian, just don’t ask him about how to structure your diet unless you really love bananas…
@Puffy
Because that’s like asking your Calculus prof to mention Addition as an important part of doing Integrals.
Another great article Gianni. There’s info in here regardless of wether you are a climber or not. Dropping Kg’s is key to climbing, either to survive, or to win. And actually getting climbing into your routine. That’s especially important if you aren’t a climber. Go looking for long climbs. Start on shorter, lower angle climbs then work your way up to bigger and steeper ones.
Funny thing is even in the “climbing community” there are types of climbing that any given VM will excel at. Shorter very steep climbs are almost as big a weakness as sprinting for me personally, but a nice, really long slightly lower angle climb is bitchin’.
@Darren H
This. I often commune with the butterflies, and looking all the way up the hill is the kiss of death. I don’t worry about getting to the top: I worry about the next 10 seconds, and it all works out.
I climb like a box of rocks, but I love it anyway. Relish the struggle.
I refuse to accept that my protuberant gut is the cause of both my climbing and sexual disappointments. Ah, Hell, need to pour another Templeton rye to wash down these cheese sticks. Waffle House is gonna taste fuckin great in the morning.
Another tip is the line up the climb. Brings a smile to my face to see young skinny runts take the inside of the turn/bend up which is like a climb in a climb getting out of the saddle to sprint out of the bend. Lots of energy wasted there.
Whereas take the wide sweeping ‘flat line’ of the apex of the turn/bend helps keep the speed and cadence steady. As always if safe to do so on open, public roads. Otherwise in a organized event I take that wider, ‘flat line’ up.
@Mikael Liddy
The biggest problem with eating like a primate is the sheer volume required, you have to eat all fucking day, the guy buys his fruit and veggies by the box, eating a fuck ton of food sounds good until you try it, and then you have to dump that shit, literally.
@ChrisO
This from a man who creamed us all on the hills last summer!
@sthilzy
Wasn’t is Pantani and Ulrich showing the two methods head to head on the TdF one year? I’m sure someone will know the year and find the video.
LeMan also mentions power-to-weight ratio; (Credit to Winning magazine No.91, June 1991)
Oh yeah, and a 42 chain wheel!
Great post! Being a 106kg 186cm ex rugby player suffering from an unexpected love affair with cycling and climbing (paired with a looming mid-life-crisis), I can relate.
Adding to the advice – scientific studies have proven that the sensation of pain is greatly reduced if the subject is allowed to widely curse and swear. For a cyclist, this is very useful; especially if you develop a series of profanities that helps you maintain your cadence. Here is mine (in Swedish, but you’ll get the picture): “Fan. Helvetes. Jävla. Skit”. This aligns to a cadence of 80RPM, while alleviating the pain and confusing the competition. Let’s call it the V-chant.
I am not a apt lip-reader, but I can swear that Bäckstedt was using a similar technique, crushing the Pavé at Arenberg in 2004.
Lastly: “drinking as much alcohol as life requires”. So true. Deserves to go on a t-shirt.
@sthilzy And interestingly LeMan doesn’t mention climbing as a pre-cursor to climbing well.
It’s about power and weight, not how many cols you’ve bagged. I don’t think you actually need to do a lot of climbing to be a good climber.
Riding at 350W is riding at 350W whether you’re on the flat or on a climb. In fact I find it easier (mentally at least) to do 350W up a hill and I know people who claim they actually produce higher numbers on climbs over flats for the same effort.
I guess we will find out in August at Bealach Na Ba – I can’t do any climbing here between May/June and September. I’ll just go and try to hit a number, Froome-style.
@Dfitz
Doing it myself at the end of June, but not the fondo, just my club taking over a hotel in the Bormio, spending a week riding the climbs, and finishing everything out with the Stelvio on the last day. I am looking forward to it with both anticipation and complete horror. I wouldn’t mind hearing what others have to say about rides up it.
@Shatterhand As a former rugby player I can relate to that although I tend to find that moving my mouth to create such mantras diverts energy away from the legs as does using my brain to think of the words. Slack jawed and empty headed is the way to go. Any sort of brain function is liable to be diverted to subversive thoughts along the lines of “who the fuck did you think you were kidding, fat boy” and “you’re well and truly out of your comfort zone here, you could have spent the afternoon sat in the sun drinking wine and eating chornicons ans saucisson sec”. Its Rule #6 all the way for me.
@Al__S
Cambridgeshire is a bit on the flat side isn’t it. Great for riding into the wind, though. The ramp up to Waitrose’s roof top car park in Huntingdon is probably your best bet for hill reps. The spiral ramp at the Grand Arcade in Cabridgeshire gets a bit busy for my liking.
@Chris WTF? Where are you guys? BTW. In Hertford, Hereford, and Hampshire, hurricanes hardly ever happen!
@shaterhand @chris Also an ex Rugby player but fortunately I played on the wing.
@Chris
Concur. Thinking while climbing, that’s dangerous. Save thinking for après-velo.
@The Pressure
They are mainly on the plain.
@The Pressure On the plain! And where’s that soggy plain? North of Huntingdon, near the edge of the fens. There aren’t many hurricanes here either but given the recent weather, I surprised that we’ve not become a seaside village overnight.
I can ride 113 km to my parents place with only 350m of elevation. And that’s all at either end.
@ChrisO
5W/kg is fine, it just depends how long you’re expected to keep it there for! I’ve seen it mentioned a few times that it’s easier to put out higher power values on climbs than on the flat. I’ve certainly found that my best figure are on climbs, but I suspect this is because you can put in constant effort, whereas the slightest dip or change in wind conditions on a flat road gives you a dip in power making it difficult to sustain max effort.
@Shatterhand
I was going to post that I’d regained my Slith like figure (intentional pun on Silth) from my Rugby days (weight wise anyway – some of the distribution is not quite so effective as my Rugby days). Then I thought who/what was Silth anyway?
“I must be surrounded by beauty!” – Silth
Silth was a Marlfox and High Queen of Castle Marl. She was the mother of seven axe-wielding children:Mokkan, Lantur, Ziral, Gelltor, Predak, Vannan, and Ascrod. Silth killed her husband seasons previously when he wanted to become king. She was very old and vain.
Silth prefered to be carried around on a curtained palanquin and demanded that her children steal treasures and pretty objects to decorate her chamber, saying that death could not visit where beauty reigned. Towards the end of her days, she was driven mad by the antics of her youngest daughter, Lantur, who along with Wilce tortured her into thinking she was haunted by a ghost. Silth was eventually poisoned by Lantur so that she could become queen. Wilce told others that Silth was slain by the ghost of her former mate.
Silth was the third Marlfox to die.
So on balance I think maybe Slith-like is no so bad – though he didn’t last too long either.
@Teocalli Don’t you mean sylph as in syphlike?
Sylph (also called sylphid) is a mythological spirit of the air.[1] The term originates in Paracelsus, who describes sylphs as invisible beings of the air, his elementals of air.
Which might be equally inappropriate for you as:
sylphlike: adjective /ˈsɪlf.laɪk/ (of a woman or girl) attractively thin and delicate
@Chris
Possibly – not sure which is worse, a batch of axe wielding offspring or being invisible! No votes for the second thanks. However, yup I did mean sylphlike but there’s a whole bunch of letters there that can get mighty confused and definitely should not end in ….litic
@Fausto
Obviously.
But the suggestion was to hold it while other people are attacking so as not to be far behind, which means sustaining it for some time on a climb of a decent length.
5W/kg for even 5 minutes is very good Cat 2 territory and 10 minutes would be Cat 1.
It’s just meaningless advice – someone who can do 5W/kg isn’t getting dropped in the first place unless they are competing at a pretty high level.
It’s like telling someone the way to run faster is to buy a stopwatch and do a sub 3 hour marathon.
We are all climbers … some are just better at it
I’m positive I posted something meaningless in this thread last night, but I can’t find it now.
Anyway, my weight has been on a yo-yo this winter, anywhere from 74 to 78kg. I’m looking for suggestions on how to trim that down to a consistent 72 without sacrificing frozen pizza’s or IPA’s. Maybe, only eat every other day?
I find that it is my love hate relationship with the perfect amount of dumb that keeps bringing me back to my climbing routes three and four days a week. There’s something about suffering at the five & dime with the “V” meter dialed in to that sweet spot. Like @ChrisO pointed out find your number and hold it.
@Shatterhand Yes, cursing is essential to sports and life. I’ll have to learn those good swedish ones. We all need a mantra, it might as well be a fun one.
@Chris
Beautiful. I’m in your camp. My brain function goes to zero on bad climbs. Just maintaining the hull and machinery. My wife, who is tall and thin and a good climber, she is singing and processing crazy ideas the whole climb…not me. Nothing.
“you’re well and truly out of your comfort zone here…” would also be a good t-shirt.
Seems like there are quite few around who played other sports, before Following. Me too and though my body has changed a lot since I’ve been mainly a cyclist for a solid decade, I’ll never be a reed thin climber. Oh well, I think the determination and fight learned in those other sports helps me hang in during climbs quite well.
And, I’m Medium-Sized, so says Gianni. Not Backstedtian.
Weight for a cyclist weighs heavily. Most of us always are feeling to fat to climb, no matter what weight we’re at. And then I go to a reunion or something and see dudes I grew up with, played sports with, went to college with and I actually feel badly for being so skinny, since many of them have really packed ’em on.
“You look great! What have you been doing?” Not much, just buying road bike after road bike, Following, looking at myself in Lycra on a daily basis, worried that weighing 5 kgs less than when I was in college isn’t enough. Ya know.
@Chris
God that’s flat. I get 350m^ on my 15km to work and there isn’t anything that you’d even consider a real ‘hill’.
Are you riding Ashdown on Sunday?
@The Oracle
Ditch the fucking dairy if you are eating any. You will notice positive change in no time.
@TommyTubolare
I appreciate that this is good advice, but telling a guy from Wisconsin to stop eating dairy is like telling an Irish guy to stop drinking and fighting. We know it ain’t good for us, but we just can’t help ourselves.
@norm I never quite got round to signing up for Ashdown this year. My brother-in-law, who I usually do it with couldn’t make it and it’s a bit of a trek from my place. Just as well really, it doesn’t look like I’ll be having a weekend, there’s a big report to be written by Wednesday evening.
I have, however, signed up for Flat Out in the Fens in June with the intention of riding to and from the start to rack up a double ton by Her Majesty’s measuring stick.
@Puffy Can’t revise the rules as they have come down from on high. Imagine the revised Ten Commandments: “Thou shall not kill, unless he has it coming.”
Revision opens the door to trouble.
@The Oracle
HA! Ditch the dairy. That’s a good one. If there are two things that we Wisconsinites will not quit, it’s dairy and beer.
Now, the question is, if you had to give one up–gun to your head and all–which one would it be?
I could live without the cheese…
@KW
“I wish I had become serious about riding 10 years ago. I’m saddened to think of all the miles I missed out on. I guess I’ll just have to catch up.”
The quote above looks familiar? Don’t do the same stupid mistake twice. But I can tell you just by ditching cheese you could enjoy a glass of a good beer every evening and you’ll be fine. Either that or you can continue your bad habits to be a good guy from Wisconsin. The choice is yours.
I’m too fat to climb and too stupid to know better.
Any decent ride around here means hills and plenty of them.
@Darren H
This is also why climbing a straight road is pure hell. Being able to see the top is only rewarding when the tippy top is just over there, not when its way the fuck up the road.
@Teocalli
…what he said…
@Jon
If you’re looking for sense, you’re in the wrong place – you can find lots sense over on a respectable site.
Climbing always comes down to how much you can suffer. I lose weight and then think I’ll automatically go faster. The thing is, I’ll just go the same speed but feel better. The trick is to keep putting yourself in the hurt box just as much as you did when you were a fat fuck. I see stubborn fat guys out climb the skinny folk all the time.
@ChrisO
Fair enough about power, but doing climbs only makes you better at dealing with it mentally, if not so much in actually being better at it.
It also teaches you how to deal with the inevitable slowing of your cadence that comes as part of that asshole gravity trying to pull you back down the hill – things like riding on the hoods for better leverage when you’re suffering, on the tops to maintain, standing in the drops when you’re overgeared…whatever works for you individually to get uphill faster when the hurt is on will be learned with practice and practice only. But if you don’t have the power, then you won’t get up the hill.
@Ccos
Good boy.
@KW
I don’t think Leinenkugel counts as beer?
@KW
Beer, cheese, or dairy? I live in WI and I have to forego one? Damn . . . tough choice! Milk is an integral part of my diet and pre-ride meal. Cheese I like in moderation, same with beer – had a couple of spotted cows at the weekend – damn they were fine. How about I never have a ciggie, glass of wine, parmesan cheese, sushi or most shellfish for the rest of my life? That’s it, I totally abstain from parmesan cheese forever. Of course, it could be part of a radical weight loss program – at the end of every meal I eat some parmesan cheese and vomit everything up.
@wiscot Well, Keith Richards cites his avoidance of cheese as the key to his longevity (re: failure to die).
Maybe they’re on to something here.
@Gianni
It won’t beat me. I won’t let it. There’s another 1500m to the actual summit of Teide, but that appears to be mountain bike country.
@chris it isn’t quite as bad as resorting to car parks. There’s, um, Madingley rise. And Chapel Hill. And heading south into Hertfordshire and Essex gives quick access to lots of little but sharp climbs.
I come to believe there is a “range” in which you can climb a hill, that equates to a certain amount of energy used. It may be total bullshit, but oblige me for a moment. (I’m an engineer, so I think in quirky ways like this)
Think of a graph with two line. One straight line is effort, and one curved line is your energy capacity. On a graph these two line intersect twice. Between those two points is your “suffer zone” while your climbing. At the lower intersecting end is the speed you climb, is where you’re mentally giving it something, but also (mentally) saving for later in the ride. Its defiantly suffering. However, I believe that most don’t realize the other intersection exists. This is where you suffer more, but for less time, ultimately expelling the same energy while getting up the climb faster.
I know, that on most rides, I can go out and crush an entire shop ride on a climb. Not bragging, its just the way it is on some rides. I’m a better climber than sprinter. BUT, I also noticed, that on rides where I stick closer to the pack, at the top of the climb I’m still huffing and puffing. I was baffled at how can I be going slower, and still find a pain cave.
These are the things I think about while on my bike, rolling along the asphalt, listening to the tires roll. SO…. it got me thinking that maybe I can go even faster, I just need to breech that mental barrier and punch it. It worked, I found hills that just crushed my ego before, I could get to the top quicker than I ever expected.
The quest is to find that tipping point, because there sure is one. I’ve completely blown up a time or two, and had to hang my head in shame over the bars absolutely gasping for air, while my buddies mumble sweet profane nothings as they pass me by.
Bottom line, you have a tank of fuel for a climb. You can slowly milk it dry, or just damn chug it.
@Ccos
If you’re taking health advice from Keith Richards I’m pretty sure cheese (or lack thereof) will be the least of your issues…
@Mikael Liddy
Well, he looks kinda gnarly to be sure, but he’s not too fat to climb. Of course, I’m sure his lungs are the size of peanuts after all the cigs so he might be at a disadvantage there. His autobiography did make for a good read though.
Maggie’s wearing Bonts. Good man. That is a great photo.
@The Oracle
That should wake @Dr C up.