Cobbles, Carbon, Silk, and Dust
I hadn’t planned to ride them every day. In fact, I had planned to only ride them once and let other people ride them. But, genius that I am, I forgot my ceramic brake pads and had to source some new ones which was a maddeningly difficult process given that Europe observes something in the neighborhood of 363 holidays per year.
I was more than a little apprehensive, to be honest, of riding a lightweight set of carbon wheels down the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix – let alone on three separate occasions and two days on the kasseien of Vlaanderen. At long last, I got my hands on some brake pads, but then my hopes of riding my Golden Tickets died with the harp hiss emitting from Stefano Museeuw’s back when when he took my FMB-clad Nemisis through a hole big enough to lose him in. One thing for sure, the young talent has the “Look Pro Stop at the Side of the Road in Disgust” nailed. I suppose it helps when you’ve got the Lion of Flanders as your dad and mentor.
But truth be told, the Cafe Roubaix Arenberg wheels were amazing to ride, especially on the tarmac. On the cobbles, they were noticeably less compliant than my box-rim tubs, but they more than made up for it in speed and featheriness on the tarmac bits. And that is the element we so often overlook about Roubaix: we identify so heavily with the 50km of Pavé, but we so easily forget there are 200km of tarmac to deal with as well – which is why Museeuw ultimately lost to Tchmil aboard his ill-fated Bianchi “Throne”. When judging a wheel, all these aspects must be weighed against one another.
One thing of note, however, is that on the roughest secteurs of pavé – in particular the Trenchée and Carrefour – I found it more difficult to discover my rhythm than I did last year. Could it be that the lightweight wheels bounced too much and spent too much time going up rather than forward? I find that notion easier to digest than the notion that there was something amiss with my riding.
I proclaim this knowing full well the wrath I’m sure to receive: even for the enthusiast, the carbon wheel is the future for every discipline of cycling. While my Ambrossios are much more lovable in terms of nostalgia and good-old-fashioned hardman looks, the strength and stiffness of the Roubaixs outmatched the classic box-rim of the Nemesis in every respect from weight all the way down to trueness. On the other hand, three-cross bladed spokes on a deep-dish rim are a real bitch in a Flemish crosswind.
that drop….
This makes me a little sad but chapeau to @Dan_R for building a sound wheel. At least someone was riding them. Did the Young Lion puncture your FMBs, or taco your wheel?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the rhythm issues are from the wheels. No other wheel I’ve ridden is as smooth as the golden tickets, probably because there is a good deal of mass in those rims. They roll over stuff great.
They looked amazing and I’m sure they were stunning to ride on the tarmac but between the Roubaixs and your disintegrating rear end you made a god awful racket on the pavé.
I would have held your wheel if I hadn’t have been terrified of being caught up in a blast zone of splintered carbon.
I hope you’ve got someone local who can repair your FMB for you.
I am no expert (no need to agree so quickly….) but the wheel / tire choice must affect things greatly on the pavé. Last week I found myself toiling to get up to a rythym and pace of any sort once I hit the cobbles while on the asphalt I was cruising easily, so I don’t think it was a fitness issue etc, just my DT Swiss road wheels and 23mm clinchers. Maybe next time I will try something different.
@strathlubnaig Ignore Frank and his new fangled ways, you’ve got to give the golden tickets a go if you’re riding pave. They might not be as quick on the tarmac as deep section tubs but paired with good hubs they’ll still whip most clinchers. The whole tubular experience is a revelation.
@sean
I didn’t know they made seat posts that long….
Also no cobbles expert, but do notice that on the really rough sections of Tarmac round here, carbon rims do seem to bounce around more
@strathlubnaig
Yeah – as you saw I was riding DT Swiss hubs too and Mavic Pro clincher rims with 25mm GP4000’s at 120psi/8bar. Their first ever roll on a bike was the Arenberg and that they kept together for close on 200kms of riding after that under my fat arse is a tribute to their builder at the LBS – even the Apostle said they were good wheels.
Obviously the hub, rim, tyre choice combo makes a difference but for a civilian like me beyond having strong wheels (which also look pro and fantastic) I find it hard based on my limited experience to imagine that the more exotic stuff is going to make that much of a difference to me. I was just happy to limit my losses to a single puncture and a trip to the LBS on getting back to check my hoops are good for a few more Flanders excursions.
Did you go to Flanders and Northern France to ride on tarmac, or cobblestones?
Was Frank riding at his usual 8 bars?
@Gianni
That’s what the app said to ride at…
How long is that seatpost – it looks about a metre long?
@Jamie
That’s cause he’s riding a 49cm with 650c wheels.
There was an article on VeloNews today about there only being four bikes in this year’s PR with Ambrosio rims.
@Jamie
Not far off! I scaled the crank arm on the iPad at 8.5mm and if the arm is 175mm therefore the scale is 1:20.6 then measured the BB centre to seat top at 44.7mm, so 44.7 x 20.6 = 941mm Not taking in the lean against the wall. Then there’s that drop!
I wonder if it isn’t a question of harmonics. Perhaps the Golden Tickets’ rim rebound frequency is lower than that from the carbon rims, thus the bounce/flex energy is not directly transmitted up the fork but tangentially instead, resulting in larger fork/seat stay oscillations. This force would combine with the immediate impact force to lengthen the duration of the force but reduce its amplitude. So, at Frank speed, this longer wave rebound would result in greater apparent compliance.
A stronger, faster rider, say your Faboo or your Tommeke, moving many km/h faster, would find the harmonic tuning of deeper section wheels to be just right.
Heh. Or not. Russian Imperial Stout for the win. That bitch is ALWAYS at the right rebound frequency and wavelength.
PS: Amstel Gold VSP?
I sleep with my carbon wheels
@starclimber
I was waiting for that kind of astute analysis. Especially after several New Belgium Trippels. Actually, I was also hoping to read the phrase “resonant frequency,” just because I like the way it sounds.
Oh god there’s a pattern forming here. I mean, another one.
Patterns are good. If I pull one more bottle from this case, the pattern potential increases drunkratically.
OH, and as to ‘resonant frequency’, way too sciency for @frank. Or @shitfaced.me, for that matter. It took me a solid 15 seconds to figure out to finish that last sentence with ‘matter’. For that….uh. um…
@Skinnyphat yea, yours are pretty nifty!
@Nate
Good point. Why would anyone go all the way to France and Belgium and then NOT ride up the crown ? Riding the gutter ? It would be pointless and poor form, like snogging your sister.
@starclimber
WAIT FOR IT!
I dissent from the majority opinion “even for the enthusiast, the carbon wheel is the future for every discipline of cycling” and write separately.
My Jan sized ass is insupportable on even the finest of carbone wheels. While I might get away with it for a few hundred miles (!) the end result would be a crushed wheelset, and a crushed ego. All fine you you brave young cyclists and all, but I’m a traditionalist.
Metal hoops, please.
@starclimber
That is exactly how every article that the Keepers have seen fit to post here that I’ve written was done. Took me 5min to write these 2 sentences actually.
@eightzero
Have you ever even tried a set? If you’re running Shimano or SRAM, you can take my Reynolds offset tubs (on White Industry hubs, and TUFO tyres) for a spin at one of the Cogals. Then get back to us. I’ve met you, and you’re not that big.
@Chris
That awful sound turned out to be the shim in my seat post, nothing sinister.
@Gianni
Oh, I’za waitin’, massuh, I’za waitin!
I’za mosly awaitin’ a cobbled skull-fuckin’ in dee mornin’. This ain’t gonna be pretty.
@Frank. Thank you for what was the final or confirmatory test run on my carbon wheels. Made specifically for tough conditions that usually meant a strong set of alloy wheels were needed, I wanted to build wheels that would withstand a rough ride or two, thus being of value to the non-professional rider. You can spend significant dough on carbon wheels and you can spend a whole lot less on “questionable” carbon wheels. The go-pro video and pictures have been great too. Carbon may be here for a while and I am more than happy that it looks like Cafe Roubaix has a wheel worthy of the name!
Oh, and various Ambrosio rims hang ready for builds in the studio too. I still build with alloy.
And I am getting a shop jersey autographed by the Lion Of Flanders.
@eightzero you’d have to be in the 275lb range with Kurt Harrnet type power to crush a real set of carbon wheels. Just saying that for every carbon fiber horror story on the Internet, there are thousands of satisfied users. People are willing to use frames,forks, crank arms, stems, etc. Oh, and I am not calling you out per se, just putting it to the forum that tradition is technology in cycling. Think of the people and companies that have moved equipment forward. Campagnolo, Zeus, Cinelli, etc were the forefathers of Rotor, Cervelo, Enve, etc
@starclimber
I have no idea what all of that meant, but fuck it sounded mighty impressive, and to polish the science off with a malted beverage reference is pure genius….that’s like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object!
@eightzero
Bravo….although, they are trying to move me on to steel reinforced concrete hoops….note to self, every ride does not justify another curry!!!!
@Deakus
But the ride justifies the beer. It’s the beer that demands the curry (or chipper).
@scaler911
This is a kind offer, and I am flattered at your words. I come from the sect of velominatus that believes in a systems approach to the Bike. With unlimited resources comes an unlimited selection of components and combinations. Sadly, I live in the real world where simplicity and tradition must be kept in balance with innovation and technology, and naturally cost effectiveness. While I have absolutely no doubt the carbone wheels and tubs offer superior ride quality and enjoyment, I must balance that system against the realities of durability and cost. Cost here is key, since little bits add up, and every dollar spent on a tub is a dollar I could spend getting to a cycling destination.
Like a Cogal.
@Deakus
I suffered a short-lived life threatening malt-powered mirth chortle upon reading your response, for which I thank you. If only one phase of water would fall from the skies tomorrow, I could get through this weekend exfurioused. I mean c’mon, Vancouver, pick one for fuck’s sake: liquid/solid/both/neither. Then, I could dress poorly for just one eventuality, not all of them.
Here’s the forecast, verbatim, I shit you not:
SaturdayMainly cloudy with 70 percent chance of rain showers in the morning and 30 percent chance of rain showers or ice pellets late in the afternoon. Risk of a thunderstorm late in the afternoon. 70 percent chance of wet flurries over higher terrain early in the morning. Windy near the water late in the afternoon. High 10. UV index 4 or moderate.Yeah. UV index. Where, exactly, did I miss the part about ‘glorious sunshine’ in all of that?
Unrelated, I’m in downtown Dublin now through Monday noon. Are there any Velominati here who want to get together for lunch or a beer? Dr C? The Engine?
Email me: boss@topfunky.com
@pistard
And here lies the path to true enlightenment…..thankyou for inserting the correct logic, I had spent some time claiming that my barrel chested physique was the result of a Big Mig engine….but sadly I feel it is more to do with the above!
@starclimber
You need a support vehicle!
@G’rilla
I am sure @The Engine would love to meet up, ‘cept he lives in another country from Dublin separated by a great big sea. Love geographically challenged septic tanks.
truer word have never been spoken. Have you seen the ENVE Twenty9 XC wheels? awesome. HED Stingers? awesome. Cafe Roubaix wheels? awesome.
@Gianni
Fuck no. I started at 6 bar and finished around 5.5 or so. Very nice and soft.
@Nate
Come do the trip with us next year and put this remark in context.
@sthilzy
Camera distortion is a bitch. The exposed seat post is less than 300mm. And I ride 177.5’s. But nice effort!
@starclimber
BRILLIANT! I think you’re onto it. Although for certain the pros were doing their fair share of bouncing in the trench.
@eightzero
I love me my metal hoops – make no mistake – their feel, their ride, their look. But truth be told, the carbon is lighter and stronger. In all fairness, the carbon wheels survived a harder week of riding better than did my metal hoops last year.
My big concern is always the braking on carbon wheels, but the pads I’m using result in very good stopping power, though they are just a tad grabby.
In the end, though, these wheels would survive under you perfectly fine. This stuff is stronger than you’d think. The fact that our bikes don’t disintegrate riding down even a single secteur is evidence to that.
That, my man, is just good prioritization.
Carbon is plenty strong. Its used on transport air crafts. they even use it for brakes on air craft.
http://www.compositesworld.com/news/boeing-completes-testing-of-carbon-fiber-brakes
@RedRanger enve and hed design and engineer their rims. the enve does look best out of the lot, including lightweights. the hed stingers i had last season looked like toy squirt guns.
im not sure how involved cafe roubaix is with the rim other than sourcing it, slapping a decal on and building it up. Perhaps danr can shed some light on that for us.
Frank, what pads are you using? When i spoke with dan he mentioned reynolds seemed to play nice with the brake track…