Rule#74 Conundrum
Maui Velominatus Dave is tapering for this Saturday’s Cycle to the Sun. It is more mass start, time trial to the sun as there is nothing like 3.3 km of continual climbing to sort everyone out by their power to weight ratios. After 2 km of climbing there is no pack and no draft. Everyone climbs as hard as they can and almost everyone is riding alone.
Dave has been training like a bastard. He doesn’t have a coach but he does have a power meter and an analytical mind. As we talked about his up-coming race he could not contain himself any longer, “I don’t know how you and Frank can train without power meters. They are fantastic. They make your bike an extension of your body.”
What? I had never considered this as a possibility. Isn’t this something we all want; the rolling centaur? This is a feedback loop: the brain to the legs to the cranks to the strain gages to the head unit to the eyes to the brain. The bike is getting involved here. The bike is telling you how hard you are riding it. Dude.
Presently I’m just riding with a V-meter. I’ve used heart rate meters and cyclometers but got tired of seeing how slow I was. I wanted to simplify; I wanted an unadulterated ride. Also, I obviously didn’t want to formally train anymore, just do rides that I barely made it home from. Is that training? To quote Roy Knickman*, “you are what you train.” His admonition is something Abandy should take to heart; if all you do is train in the mountains, that’s all you are going to be good at. I might have been just training to barely make it home but really it was not training. Training should be more work and less play.
We all need cycling goals. We all need something to get fitter for, even if the goal is as simple not to get shelled as quickly on that same climb.
Let us be very clear on the idea of training rides versus other rides. A training ride may not be too much fun and most importantly there should be a clear plan for what will happen, see Rule #71. This is where the power meter has to shine; it is the most reliable, direct and accurate instrument for monitoring effort on the bike. The prices are coming down and the model choices are going up. Here is a nice amateur guide for them.
The head unit stays at home on the weekend group ride to the café and back. That ride is why you did the training ride(s) earlier in the week. Don’t try to mix the two or you will be abused. We do the training rides so we can drop our friends on the weekend, that’s what friends do. And nobody wants to be accused of staring at their power meter when they should be looking where they are going, no matter how well they ride.
I am intrigued by the concept of the bike becoming more of an extension of the body through the power meter. Does this violate The Rules? Does this make you a stronger cyclists?
*Who is Roy Knickman? American Hardest of Hardman of the 7-Eleven and La Vie Claire era, FFS.
Nice, thoughtful piece Gianni, as usual. “Extension of the bike”? That’s what a good pair of shoes and good cleats are for. That, and a well-thought out, suitable and efficient position. I have a basic computer that records the usual stuff. Maybe I’m a technophobe as well as being past my training-to-race days, but I can’t imagine ever wanting that much data. Hell, on recovery rides I tape over the screen so I’m not tempted to see the numbers, but just enjoy the simplicity of the ride.
I’ll admit it one of my bikes has a power meter. It is a Stages meter so very subtle. I enjoy to review the data post ride when I should be working. I don’t let it dictate how I ride, just review the data afterwords. In the dead of winter up here in Canada on the trainer it makes for good entertainment when linked up to the Sufferfest on TrainerRoad. That being said I want to vomit when I hear a bunch of mediocre 40-50 year old triathletes quoting their watts/kg and FTP values etc..
Jogging is running without a purpose. EVERY ride on the bike, however, has a purpose, be it to suffer, to get stronger or to get somewhere using a superior form of transportation. Do power meters violate the rules? That depends upon how well you need to train properly. Regardless, you always ride with the V. And Roy Knickman, he remains a classic.
I finally get my points of contact dialled in so my bike becomes an extension on my body – hands to bars, shoes to pedals, ass to saddle – now you want me to add my brain to the mix? I ride to unplug that very feature. I can see the value of having a power meter if you are racing or riding at an elite level. For me, I ride to clear my mind, to feel the road, and let my senses and reflexes take over. If I need a kick in the ass it will be from the rider passing me or a steep pitch taunting me.
Nice one, Gianni!
Hmm, seems like the Soul Riders are first to chime in here! wiscot & Tobin – yup, I ride to just get out, feel the wind in my face, and have some fun. Maybe I’ll get the bug to compete (again) in the future, but these days I’m just riding for the sheer pleasure of ridin’ cool bikes.
I like to know kilometerage – end of year, how much I’d done in a particular month, how long chains, tires, cassettes are lasting – so I use a simple cyclometer, but keep it in my jersey pocket.
And herein lays another clear example of the contradictions of this sport. The courting of technology (power meters which can result in riding like a certain maillot jaune wearing bike-humping spider) and the romanticism of the classic ways (sans casque and clutter free handlebars).
A power meter can, perhaps, create a deeper connection with the bike in that it allows the rider to more accurately dial in their performance. But at what cost? Arguably, meeting the man with the hammer is an important part of the path of the Velominatus. Something that using a power meter can keep a rider from experiencing. Sure, you’re entering the pain cave, but you’re bringing a flashlight so you can see the end of the tunnel.
Is it a valuable training tool so that you can effectively improve your riding – undoubtedly. However I agree with Gianni that when it comes to “the ride”… you leave that shit at home (or in your jersey pocket for later reflection)
I’ll leave you with this image from the dawn of the “how many watts is he putting out” era we are now in. A “Doctor” sitting in the team car doing the math to let a uni-testicled texan know that he doesn’t have to chase down the rider in front of him because if he just sits there and spins a certain wattage he will eventually reel them back in makes for REALLY FUCKING BORING RACING! And leads us back to the spider humping a lightbulb.
When I started riding 25 years ago it was like this – “I was coming back on my 160km ride and the winds came up and I got caught out and bonked 30km from home, took me 1.5 hours to get to town with no calories left, I was totally cooked, I will watch the winds closer now as I was hallucinating by time I got home, but it was a great ride” I would not trade those days for anything. Nowdays it might be like this for a young cyclist: “you are doing an endurance ride for 5-6 hours so you should ride at x% of your FTP and eat xxx calories per hour throughout the ride to ensure you don’t deplete your glycogen stores (aka ensuring that the man with the hammer does not arrive). I think the power curves can really accelerate the learning for new riders and within a couple of years they will have what might have taken 5-6 years of experience before …
@wiscot
“Extension of the bike” I was sort of astounded to hear that phrase myself. And I have no experience with one but I am sort of captivated by the notion of the bike telling you how you are going. First thing is the actual need to train for something, like a Keepers Tour or some Italian trip. I guess I hate training so I need a very strong incentive to decrease my suffering on a big ride or rides.
There is no denying the enhancement a PM does to training. It is however just a tool in a bag with others. You will never win a race or a bunch ride just by watching your wattage. If I wasnt training (racing), I wouldn’t have a PM that is for sure and when not on a training ride as Gianni says, the PM is ignored. The thing about PM’s I reckon is they are primarily a data collection facility for post analysis since you rarely have the luxary of setting the pace for 90% of the time in a race/bunch ride.
As to Rule #74… I belive a Garmin 500 on the stem complies so I don’t see the conundrum unless you are sporting an iphone, or the Garmin 810/1000 out front.
@Puffy
Hmm
I’m a known user so no surprise I will contribute an hallelujah to the chorus on this one.
As Gianni says it is without doubt the most accurate and reliable way to monitor effort on your bike. If you are training for anything, even just for suffering less pain on the Sunday club ride, then you will potentially benefit from a power meter.
I say potentially because I think a lot of people have them but don’t benefit from them.
If you view them in much the same way as getting an HR monitor or a GPS that logs miles then it’s just another expensive toy and I fear Gianni’s advice is still at this stage.
You have to go further and make your entire training power based – and that includes keeping it on your bike even on the weekend club ride. You might not ride to a pre-determined power level as you would in a training session but you do want to know exactly what your effort was on the ride as this will have an effect on your weekly and long-term training.
People who start with power training are often surprised by the amount of recovery – and how very light that recovery is. Because you train so accurately at higher levels a power-based training plan has a lot of recovery time at levels where previously you might have thought it was hardly worth being on the bike. So if you do a three hour club ride you need to know where that fits on the scale.
I can’t compare to DCRainmaker but have written a short guide to power training for Men’s Fitness magazine. It talks about the various systems, not in the same depth, but also adds something about the concepts and terms. It’s a PDF not an image so I can’t upload here but if anyone is interested you can email me at ohearnc at gmail .
@ChrisO
That is a very good point and it demonstrates how little I know about training with power. Yeah, that makes sense. The point I should have made is, when on a weekend group ride and you let your power meter dictate your ride that day, your friends will abuse you. A group ride is probably not an individual power training ride also. But your point about needing to record all your rides so you have all your data is an important one.
@GogglesPizano
You are right, right there. I think people misuse the term Man with the Hammer to explain fatigue when your description is the one I like for him. When it takes four times as long as it should to ride the last 15 km of a ride, then you know what it feels like. And you have to experience these things to never repeat them too, valuable life lessons.
@DeKerr
Until the spider crashes his bike and has two bad days in a row. Those last two days of the Dauphine were damn exciting to watch. And the final day was crazy. It was like everyone said fuck it; the break was bigger than the main peloton, and the main peloton was in total disarray. It was beautiful. I think Froome will be at his best by July 5th but maybe those two days will somehow haunt him a bit.
I started training with a power meter and coached plan last December and it’s made a whole world of difference for me. Whereas year after year I’d overtrain, then get sick, then recover and repeat the cycle, this year I’ve consistently improved over the months to the point where I am riding better than I ever have and with more confidence in having good long rides than before. To a certain extent, the science still befuddles me, but learning that science and how to interpret it is all part of the fun for me. I know I’ll be branded a heretic by some, but most of us around here own a carbon bike or component of some sort; a set of clipless pedals; STI or equivalent shifters on at least one of our bikes. I’ve embraced the progress, but only because it suits me. I’d never criticise anyone who decides they don’t need one. I was just looking for ways to improve my progress and it was an experiment that worked out really well.
Accepting all the arguments about knowing your sustainable power level and sticking at that, the part that always puzzled me about using one in competition is the law of marginal gains. The laws of physics mean that a power meter takes some power away from that transmitted to the road. So using one in competition is having some negative impact on performance. I wonder what the impact is compared with the gain say for latexvs butyl tubes – which is something that I’ve always found intriguing as to how an inner tube (weight aside) can influence rolling performance.
@Teocalli
There is always an observer effect I suppose but I’ve never seen anything to suggest it is even remotely significant or comparable to other factors like chain friction, bearings, rolling resistance or aerodynamics.
The systems vary but they essentially work by measuring the distortion caused when applying effort. It’s not sitting between the power transfer but measuring the effect of the transfer – it would be barely quantifiable, other than in weight.
Back when I was in college in the late ’80’s, I used to do a crazy sprint work out every couple of weeks or so. I’d do repeated sprints until I reached total exhaustion or some other calamity happened, like vomiting. It was always a real challenge to ride home. I think a power meter would have helped me gauge my efforts a little better, or perhaps having less dumbassness would have helped too. One or the other.
Having a non arbitrary number to quantify my training load has been a fantastic addition to my bike and training. As @ChrisO stated, I was astonished at what a recovery effort really is, when compared to what my “light effort” consisted previously, on my so called recovery days. Peaking and tapering now has all the guess work removed.
Taking the time to recover, and recover completely is fucking glorious when you ride your club mates off your wheel, as they have done to me on many a ride.
hmmm…does this violate The Rules? Does this make you a stronger cyclists?
Being fairly old school, you know where I am going with this. CogFather merckx NEVER needed no foulfilthing meter to measure his wattage. My beloved, Gino, never measured such a thing. For petes sake, I’m not convinced, rising from the ashes as a Pheonix, that Pantani ever was equipped with such. BUT, they did measure something else…the size of their heart, their inner faith that they could…would, and did have it.
Its nice I suppose to have such a meter, and for the money, I would/do trade it out so quickly for other equipement on the bike, most commonly new hoops. I just cannot justify for myself, using the power meters, given my paycheck on any given weekend is just not going to pay out. Maybe one of these days it gets to that breakeven point, but for now…I’ll subscribe to ‘ride more’
@souleur
Amen brother.
The bike becomes an extension of the body through extended meditation and training. The computer does not make it so. The bike is a part of the body when you know instinctively how to unweight the saddle to roll over a bump in the road that only your peripherals saw, or exactly how much to lean on one side of the bars to navigate around an obstacle, or to sense the exact moment you should shift without ever thinking about it. The supple feeling of being one with the machine is not given by the computer. Full stop.
That said, I certainly understand why people use the power meters. It is not a material difference to using a heart rate monitor apart from the fact that it removes the delay from the heart’s response to an effort. Its a very good tool and if I was a Pro I would use the fuck out of it.
For me, I enjoy the game of chance that comes with riding on feel; its purely a study of how well I’m reading my body, pushing my limits and seeing what shakes out. Its more fun for me, that is all.
Also, I might add that if you rely on your numbers too much, you will forget how to read your body’s signals and sense a bad thing coming. Froome’s Stem Staring didn’t keep him from a bad day on the Dauphine; my guess would be he was watching numbers and forgetting that his body was trying to ring him to say one of the pistons in the engine room was misfiring.
@Teocalli
Some of the new meters like the Stages are simply a couple of strain gauges on the crank arm. 20g in additional weight but I don’t see how would degrade performance as it is only measuring a deflection that is already there …. would be undetectable I would say
Goggles – as a historian I have to ask. Was “bonk” a term cyclists used twenty-five years ago (to describe something happening on the bike, not in the bedroom)?
@Ron
I remember hearing it sunny Scotland in the 1980s, although “the Knock” was a more common term – but that may just have been the more common Scottish variant.
@Ron
Which raises (pardon the pun) the question: can you get the knock while bonking? Some Gatorade and a couple of gels on the bedside table perhaps?
@wiscot
Perhaps in the bedroom the phenomenon is best referred to as “la fringale.” Not that I would know from experience, of course.
@The Grande Fondue
To every rule, there is an exception.
@Ron
I first heard the term “bonk” when I ran XC in high school too many years ago. As such, my impression is that “bonk” is a general term for the phenomenon used by American endurance athletes. It is not a cycling-specific term. Accordingly, while we American Velominati know what it means, we should favor other, more cycling specific vocabulary.
@Nate It is a British term as best I can tell from cycling originally. Widely used here in Canada among the cyclists I know … I first heard it from a local Cat1 God in Vancouver in the late 80’s
“Often, people associate the word “bonk” with “hitting the wall” during endurance events. For endurance athletes it is a sudden and overwhelming feeling of running out of energy. You were running or riding along at what seemed like a manageable pace, then seemingly without warning your legs turned to cement. With heavy legs, a body-wide feeling of fatigue and sometimes dizziness, you are forced to stop.
One of the first instances of the athletic term “bonk”, came from a film produced by British Transport Films in the mid-1950s in which cyclists noted that if they didn’t rest and eat, they would bonk. In other words, they would hit a limit (the proverbial wall) governed by the body and uncontrolled by the mind and sheer willpower. It is said that the feeling was similar to getting hit on the head (bonked on the head) and knocked out of competition.”
@GogglesPizano “The Bonk” is mentioned around 9:22…
@GogglesPizano
I use the following terms – if it is related to nutrition / bloodsugar levels it is a “bonk” (i.e. I need some serious calories RFN), if it is related to a shorter term over exertion / lactic acid focused in the legs it I have/am “Cracked” (i.e. need ~10min on the back drafting to recover), if it is some awful combination of the two I will have “Blown-up” (I’m a complete write-off and am left on my own to face down the man-with-the-hammer). Interestingly I only tend to completely blow-up around 15-30 min before the onset of brutal Rule#9 conditions
@GogglesPizano Good stuff there.
@pistard Damn. The fifties; when spoke properly, ruled the world, dressed like @Teocalli and ran special bike friendly trains. Where did it all go wrong?
Interesting conundrum @Gianni
Like @Tobin an @frank have said, I go riding to turn my brain off, not sure I need another device to keep it constantly buzzing and thinking and worrying and stressing. By nature Im a ball of stress so a power meter added to everything else in my life would do my head in.
On the flip side of my own argument inside my tiny brain, a work colleague has recently purchased a “Bkool” indoor trainer with virtual feeds and inbuilt power meter ( He’s not Rule #9 compliant) . His group rides have gone through the roof whereby previously languishing at the back, now a regular at the front and pushing hard.
So, as per the “force”, if used for good, not evil, cant be a bad thing Obi Wan.
@The Grande Fondue
I knew someone would bring Froome up…. As you seriously suggesting that absolutly NOTHING other than riding to a set wattage is all that he did? Are you suggesting that tactics, teamwork and the like played no role at all? Maybe, just maybe he used/uses a large number of tools to get him to the front of the peleton at the right point in a race/on a climb and THEN and only then does he ride to a set predetermined wattage. Even then I would suggest that he was going past his predetermined limits because/if he felt strong, he dug deeper than he had in testing because this was the real deal, not a simulation and in those situations we can do so. Maybe, if that was the case, and he had stuck to his predetermined limits he wouldn’t have done as well?
@Gianni
I train (with power) 90% of the time alone because I get to do what I need to do without consideration of others. Occasionally I ride with a buddy when he asks what I’m doing that day and our schedules line up. On one occasional we had agreed on a “2hr Easy” ride but I found he kept half wheeling me especially up hills. I eventually asked him if he wanted to move it to moderate and ride harder. He said no, but he was “inimidated” by my power meter and was afraid he was “dragging me down”.
I assured him that I was not a “zone junky” and didn’t have to stick exactly within a small zone every second of the ride. Intervervals were a different story and I did those solo. What really took me back was that he felt the need to always be pushing just that little bit harder than I was just incase…
I told him… “Buddy, just ride it, if I don’t like the pace I’ll say something as should you”.
@Mike_P
Make sure you get a good Coach with runs on the board! My previous “trainer” (he wasn’t coaching me!!) lead me through that exact cycle and when I finally pulled the pin after 64 weeks, he had admitted he’d overdone it but was continuing on the same path! The new coach is actually coaching me (interested in me as an athlete rather than just punching out training plans), I’m actually riding less, feel vastly fitter/fresher and the areas I kept asking the last guy to work on are finally being worked on! The new coach has the runs on the board personally (used to race) and has some successful clients. The last one had a Masters, but that was it, all book smarts and no street smarts. Lesson learned.
@souleur
Funny you should say that. As I mentined in a post above, my previous “coach” used the ‘ride more’ or TITS principle as I like to call it. (Time In The Saddle). I was always tired, fatigued and my performance plateaued. The new Coach’s motto is “Train smarted, not longer” and “Train to win, not to make charts”. I ride less (8-10hrs compared to 10-14hrs), and man do I feel fresh on a daily basis compared to before. Performance is moving upward at good rates. The intensity of my training rides is much higher now, but I recover fast and better. Where as before I had DOMs getting on the bike each morning, now, it’s gone by lunch time!
Yes having a coach, if you can afford it, or a mentor if you can’t, is a good way to start with power. It really is such a different mindset and approach that you need someone to help you.
Quite apart from understanding all the different bits of jargon and TLAs – Functional Power Threshold, Training Stress Score, Normalised Power and don’t get me started on Decoupling !
When I started with my coach I complained to him that I felt I was going backwards because I wasn’t doing enough. Another guy who started around the same time quite because he wasn’t being told to go hammer it five times a week. Fortunately the coach resisted and told me to wait and see, and I came back stronger and better than ever.
@Nate
http://www.velominati.com/tradition/the-man-with-the-hammer/
@GogglesPizano
So marginal gains says remove the deflection. Any deflection is lost energy. If that’s how they work then I can understand there being no loss, but if that is how they work I’d be surprised if they could detect low power as that would imply something of a noodle for a crank arm?
@Chris
No kidding, car free roads, not a pothole in sight, packed lunch from the restaurant carriage, bike carriage, helpful attendants, etc. Progress eh. Try to get more than 3 bikes on a train now…..
@Puffy
Yep, I can’t speak highly enough of my coach. He has more runs on the board than any rider I personally know…former track sprinter and then stage racer in South Africa before moving over. He coaches multiple elite riders and has even had one of the former Rabobank squad come to him, albeit for his bike fitting knowledge. Apart from the training plans, the key to my success with him is his ability to motivate me through dark periods when I don’t think it’s going too well, to explain the science in easy to understand terms and to help me relax more as a rider. The realisation that I don’t need to kill myself to be better has been a revelation. His service is money well spent and over the 8 months we’ve “worked” together he’s become a friend as well as coach. Did I mention that he is also an awesome wheel builder and bike fitter?
Interesting question posed here.
I’ve always been a bit of a heart rate guy…heart working to pump blood to muscles doing the work of making my bike fly has always struck me as a more valuable metric to observe than something as simplistic as speed for example.
However, I think there can be a risk that you will allow the numbers you’re seeing cloud your perception of the effort you’re putting out. For me, 165 bpm had become a redline of sorts as time after time I’d soon find myself in trouble if I tried to keep hammering at this operating temperature.
And then, a couple of weeks ago on an awesome ride with a big group of fast guys, where speed and the moment distracted me from all else, I realized after the fact that I’d done more work at and beyond my perceived red zone than ever before.
Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
@kixsand
I can’t look at my heart rate during a race. It freaks me out when it is higher than expected, and then my brain starts plotting against me.
@kixsand
And this is why the use of a power meter should be cautious. So to quote @frank (who gets more and more eloquent with each passing post)
@frank
@DeKerr
That’s like saying that because the sledgehammer didn’t work you should avoid the nutcracker.
HR is a blunt instrument compared to power for exactly this sort of reason. It doesn’t reflect the work at the exact time that it is taking place, and it is itself affected by other factors so it is no more than a guideline.
Just a thought but in applying the KISS principle, has anyone ever been told simply to train with a heavier bike?
@souleur
True, the CogFather is, well, fuckin Eddy. Why would he need any such thing- he simply devoured anything in front of him? Gino was too busy racing secret message under the eyes of fascists to even be bothered with watts/kg nonsense. As a velominatus budgetatus I cannot imagine trying to justify a powermeter to the VMW. Just wouldn’t go.