Categories: Look ProTechnology

To Carbone or Not To Carbone?

photo by bikesoup.cc

That is the question. Are carbon wheels a viable option for everyday riding? Should carbon wheels be your go-to wheels rather than your just-for-racing wheels? I don’t really race and I don’t own any carbon wheels and I wonder. Granted, every professional is and has been on carbon wheels for many years so it’s easy to think we should be on them too. Brett’s review of ENVE wheels certainly made a case for them, who dosen’t want to go faster, all the time? Frank has raved about how fast his Zipp 303s are since he first put them on his Cervelo. I hefted his Café Roubaix Haleakala climbing wheels and one dosen’t need to heft them as much as hold them down, they are unbelievably light, sub-1000 grams light.

Those wheels are too light for the rigors of the East Maui Loop pavé and potholes, or so I thought. I talked Frank out of using them and he did the Cogal on Zipp 404s and 25mm clinchers. In retrospect, with bigger tires I think he would have been OK doing the Cogal on his climbing wheels. If ultralight carbon wheels are tough enough for that ride then when are they inappropriateAmbrosio golden ticket aluminum box section rims versus Zipp 303s, let’s see, Boonen just won Paris-Roubaix on the Zipp 404s. That is the end of the discussion. It should be the beginning of the end for three-cross box section aluminum wheels. If Zipp 303s win Paris-Roubaix then when wouldn’t one use carbon wheels?

@chiasticon-

Surprised to see so much talk of carbon wheels for a Cogal; which is, essentially, not much different than a club run. I understand Frank wanting to run them for his climb up Haleakala, since he was going for a PR up a huge friggin’ volcano and I’m sure they certainly helped. But as an every day wheel for a club/social/training ride? At least within the circles I ride in, that’s a good reason to get laughed off the ride (comments would especially come from the local racers). It’s like saying “I can’t keep up with you guys without these wheels!” Or at least that’s how people generally take it.

…but how common is it among Velominati to use carbon wheels on an everyday basis?

On the Cogal ride, out of seven riders there were two people on carbon wheels. On our Sunday club ride there is maybe one user. I see a lot of bikes on the site with drool-worthy carbon wheels. Are aluminum rims old school? Are we being played here or are we all just a little behind the times or are we saving our money for better bike investments? 

Strong, light, cheap. Pick two – I’m going to attribute this to Keith Bontrager as it was etched on my Bontrager’s stem cap. I’d like to add a fourth adjective, aerodynamic, but my tiny brain can’t compute how picking two or three might work so cleverly.

Strong

There are not many high end frames made from aluminum anymore. Could the same case be made for wheels? The aluminum box rim may be light but it is not strong unless you lace a lot of crossed spokes on it. I have some 80s Campagnolo Vento deep wheels, aero maybe, not light and the ride is a bit harsh. An unlaced carbon rim may not be lighter than a light weight aluminum rim but it is much stronger.

Light

I’m afraid carbon is going to win here. While a case could have been made for the Ambrosio golden ticket being strong, it is not light. There are some semi-aero aluminum wheels out there that are light but they make me nervous with their low weight limit.

Cheap

Boing! There it is. Strong and cheap is aluminum’s territory. One pays $1100US more for Easton’s Carbon EC90 SLX wheels than the aluminum EA 90 SLX wheelset. 200 grams is the only difference between the two models. If that was the end of the comparisons I wouldn’t lose any sleep over my lack of carbone wheels but there is still one other factor.

Aerodynamic

Carbon wins this easily. The carbon can be a fairing or integral to the wheel’s strength but carbon’s moldability is the future. Formula 1 cars are no longer made of aluminum. Boonen must have saved significant energy on the long paved run-in to the pavé sectors using his Zipps, maybe enough energy to help burn everyone off his wheel later on. @Tommy Tubulare’s Cervelo with Campagnolo Bora deep carbon wheels makes my heart skip a beat. Carbon wheels look badass. 

Conclusion

Once again I have no informed opinion having never ridden carbon wheels. Would I love to see my bike looking extremely pro with some deep section carbon wheels? Yes. Would it be very bad to be shelled out the back end of a group ride while riding said wheels? Yes, it would be very bad.

Should my wheels be worth more than the rest of the bike? Who cares. Let’s address @chiasticon’s question, who’s riding carbon and when?

[dmalbum path=”/velominati.com/content/Photo Galleries/j.andrews3@comcast.net/carbone wheels/”/]

 

 

Gianni

Gianni has left the building.

View Comments

  • @snoov

    @ErikdR And of course Obree and Boardman used light wheels (I'm guessing) and probably Indurain too.

    I'm sure you're right about that - and I hadn't thought about the lower rolling resistance of a larger wheel (as @pistard points out) either. Sigh... I'm not going to get my head around this, I'm afraid. One thing I do know, though: I remember reading about a bloke who had bought an expensive and very light wheelset, but he was disappointed that the skewers were 'heavy' - as he put it - so he invested a hefty amount in some titanium skewers that were - if I remember correctly - twenty grammes lighter than the original ones. That, as far as I can tell, is missing the point.

    Right - off to northern Norway for the (long) weekend, and not expecting to bo online until Monday, so have a nice Friday and weekend, all.

  • @frank

    @Ryan

    Nemesis (aka Golden Tickets)/Sapim spokes/Record hubs = best all around wheels. Full stop

    Or Royce hubs.

    they may not be quite as pretty as the Royces (and the photo isn't on par) but these roll beautifully.

    [dmalbum: path="/velominati.com/wp-content/uploads/readers/fleeting moment/2013.02.07.22.46.06/1/"/]

  • I have 50mm carbon tubulars as everyday wheels on my carbon bike. I generally ride alone so if anyone's mocking my wheels I can't hear it over the sound of pure awesome. Nice wheels, but certainly not extravagant -- secondhand, mismatched marques but almost identical without the decals, for about the cost of a mid-level alloy set. They look cool, roll nice, and I've convinced myself I can feel the aero advantage, but they seem a bit dead compared to a set of 32 or 36 spoke alloy tubulars of similar weight (1400g). More mass at the rim and less flex. I also have a rear disc/deep front combo for track that mostly gathers dust these days. Fun to ride it on the road on occasion, at least for the sonic effects. On anything less than perfectly smooth tarmac the stiff aluminum frame and carbon disc is a masochist's dream.

  • I have a  pair of Mavic Cosmic Carbone - so the only carbon is for wind resistance. Still - I am in favor of whatever works best for a given ride. For me - these wheels are rock solid and light. Plus I got a deal on a new pair. If I could get the same affordable deal in full carbon, equallty strong and durable enough for daily commute I'd try 'em.

  • @ErikdR

    @pistard I think your statement that a larger wheel has less rolling resistance might be wrong. As I understand it, rolling resistance is essentially friction and has lots to do with the size of the contact patch of a tyre on road, as well as the psi of that patch. The size of the wheel doesnt really influence this - except if it increases weight.

    Think you might be saying that a bigger wheel has a larger moment of inertia - which in simple terms (the only terms I know),  whilst requiring more effort to get up to speed, will then go on for longer, or require a similar effort to keep spinning at the same rpm as a smaller wheel, but covers more distance per revolution. So big wheel = good for TTs.

    Can you buy carbon tubbies for penny farthings?

  • @Marcus

    @ErikdR

    @pistard I think your statement that a larger wheel has less rolling resistance might be wrong. As I understand it, rolling resistance is essentially friction and has lots to do with the size of the contact patch of a tyre on road, as well as the psi of that patch. The size of the wheel doesnt really influence this - except if it increases weight.

    Think you might be saying that a bigger wheel has a larger moment of inertia - which in simple terms (the only terms I know), whilst requiring more effort to get up to speed, will then go on for longer, or require a similar effort to keep spinning at the same rpm as a smaller wheel, but covers more distance per revolution. So big wheel = good for TTs.

    Can you buy carbon tubbies for penny farthings?

    A smaller wheel does have lower inertia, meaning faster potential acceleration, but larger will have less rolling resistance. Area of contact patch is the same with equal loads and identical diameter tires, but the shape is different -- smaller wheel has a shorter, wider contact patch with more sidewall deformation. Larger wheel will have less tire deformation. It will also roll over surface irregularities with less applied torque (eg. bicycle wheel vs skateboard wheel on pavé). Larger wheel means slower chain speed (less drivetrain friction) and fewer revolutions for the same distance (less hub friction). Pretty insignificant differences for most of us...

    I'm sure Dugast would make a penny farthing tubular, but it wouldn't be cheap.

  • @pistard be that as it may, i dont believe that larger wheels were preferred for their lesser RR. Twas all to do with inertia.

  • Fuji SST rolls on Oval 535 Alu clinchers .....  DT Swiss hubs but not sure of pedigree ....   my biggest fear regarding even trying Carbones...even carbon clinchers such as Duraace C35's or C24s is that they will feel better and that will make me covet them even more .......   Dont get me started on ENVE's or Lightweights.....

    Why must my brain hurt when I am riding a perfectly good bike, gruppo, wheel combination when a fellow rider comes along side on deep section carbon tubs going "woop, woop, woop" .... the sound is all consuming and overpowering...

    Tell me its Ok for me to be on my Alu clinchers .......   Stop the pain know ...  make it go away.

  • @Barracuda I kinda hate that noise. I've been coveting some $500 customs that my LBS sells for a while and following this thread because of it, but you just made up my mind: the next wheelset I buy will be aluminum.

    Every time I really start thinking about getting some fancy carbon wheels, along comes a race (or a group ride with douches who show up to the ride with $3K wheels) to remind me how ridiculous they are in the dull, plastic flesh.  I know the pros use them and they are fast in the wind and blah blah whatever, but plastic wheels and the noise that goes with them takes away from the simple joy of a ride that follows Rule 65.  V up, stop whining about crosswinds and drag coefficients and ride some Al!

  • @roger

    @EricW can you post some shots of this lady in the bikes section? i wish i went with traditional rather than sloping..

    I have posted a few pics, I don't want to flood the forum with my own bike.  You can see a few more shots here http://velospace.org/node/45549

1 10 11 12 13 14 17
Share
Published by
Gianni

Recent Posts

Anatomy of a Photo: Sock & Shoe Game

I know as well as any of you that I've been checked out lately, kind…

7 years ago

Velominati Super Prestige: Men’s World Championship Road Race 2017

Peter Sagan has undergone quite the transformation over the years; starting as a brash and…

7 years ago

Velominati Super Prestige: Women’s World Championship Road Race 2017

The Women's road race has to be my favorite one-day road race after Paris-Roubaix and…

7 years ago

Velominati Super Prestige: Vuelta a España 2017

Holy fuckballs. I've never been this late ever on a VSP. I mean, I've missed…

7 years ago

Velominati Super Prestige: Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian 2017

This week we are currently in is the most boring week of the year. After…

7 years ago

Route Finding

I have memories of my life before Cycling, but as the years wear slowly on…

7 years ago