Categories: Look ProTechnology

To Carbone or Not To Carbone?

photo by bikesoup.cc

That is the question. Are carbon wheels a viable option for everyday riding? Should carbon wheels be your go-to wheels rather than your just-for-racing wheels? I don’t really race and I don’t own any carbon wheels and I wonder. Granted, every professional is and has been on carbon wheels for many years so it’s easy to think we should be on them too. Brett’s review of ENVE wheels certainly made a case for them, who dosen’t want to go faster, all the time? Frank has raved about how fast his Zipp 303s are since he first put them on his Cervelo. I hefted his Café Roubaix Haleakala climbing wheels and one dosen’t need to heft them as much as hold them down, they are unbelievably light, sub-1000 grams light.

Those wheels are too light for the rigors of the East Maui Loop pavé and potholes, or so I thought. I talked Frank out of using them and he did the Cogal on Zipp 404s and 25mm clinchers. In retrospect, with bigger tires I think he would have been OK doing the Cogal on his climbing wheels. If ultralight carbon wheels are tough enough for that ride then when are they inappropriateAmbrosio golden ticket aluminum box section rims versus Zipp 303s, let’s see, Boonen just won Paris-Roubaix on the Zipp 404s. That is the end of the discussion. It should be the beginning of the end for three-cross box section aluminum wheels. If Zipp 303s win Paris-Roubaix then when wouldn’t one use carbon wheels?

@chiasticon-

Surprised to see so much talk of carbon wheels for a Cogal; which is, essentially, not much different than a club run. I understand Frank wanting to run them for his climb up Haleakala, since he was going for a PR up a huge friggin’ volcano and I’m sure they certainly helped. But as an every day wheel for a club/social/training ride? At least within the circles I ride in, that’s a good reason to get laughed off the ride (comments would especially come from the local racers). It’s like saying “I can’t keep up with you guys without these wheels!” Or at least that’s how people generally take it.

…but how common is it among Velominati to use carbon wheels on an everyday basis?

On the Cogal ride, out of seven riders there were two people on carbon wheels. On our Sunday club ride there is maybe one user. I see a lot of bikes on the site with drool-worthy carbon wheels. Are aluminum rims old school? Are we being played here or are we all just a little behind the times or are we saving our money for better bike investments? 

Strong, light, cheap. Pick two – I’m going to attribute this to Keith Bontrager as it was etched on my Bontrager’s stem cap. I’d like to add a fourth adjective, aerodynamic, but my tiny brain can’t compute how picking two or three might work so cleverly.

Strong

There are not many high end frames made from aluminum anymore. Could the same case be made for wheels? The aluminum box rim may be light but it is not strong unless you lace a lot of crossed spokes on it. I have some 80s Campagnolo Vento deep wheels, aero maybe, not light and the ride is a bit harsh. An unlaced carbon rim may not be lighter than a light weight aluminum rim but it is much stronger.

Light

I’m afraid carbon is going to win here. While a case could have been made for the Ambrosio golden ticket being strong, it is not light. There are some semi-aero aluminum wheels out there that are light but they make me nervous with their low weight limit.

Cheap

Boing! There it is. Strong and cheap is aluminum’s territory. One pays $1100US more for Easton’s Carbon EC90 SLX wheels than the aluminum EA 90 SLX wheelset. 200 grams is the only difference between the two models. If that was the end of the comparisons I wouldn’t lose any sleep over my lack of carbone wheels but there is still one other factor.

Aerodynamic

Carbon wins this easily. The carbon can be a fairing or integral to the wheel’s strength but carbon’s moldability is the future. Formula 1 cars are no longer made of aluminum. Boonen must have saved significant energy on the long paved run-in to the pavé sectors using his Zipps, maybe enough energy to help burn everyone off his wheel later on. @Tommy Tubulare’s Cervelo with Campagnolo Bora deep carbon wheels makes my heart skip a beat. Carbon wheels look badass. 

Conclusion

Once again I have no informed opinion having never ridden carbon wheels. Would I love to see my bike looking extremely pro with some deep section carbon wheels? Yes. Would it be very bad to be shelled out the back end of a group ride while riding said wheels? Yes, it would be very bad.

Should my wheels be worth more than the rest of the bike? Who cares. Let’s address @chiasticon’s question, who’s riding carbon and when?

[dmalbum path=”/velominati.com/content/Photo Galleries/j.andrews3@comcast.net/carbone wheels/”/]

 

 

Gianni

Gianni has left the building.

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  • @G'rilla

    Interesting tidbit about Dura Ace carbon rims (and maybe others).

    They use the same amount of carbon for the shallow, mid, and deep section version of their rims. It's thicker in the C24 and thinner in the C50.

    So why do they weight different? If anything, the deeper rims should be lighter (shorter spokes). I don't buy it.

  • @Marcus

    @piwakawaka

    You do realise that there isn't too much in the way of aerodynamic resistance on rollers? Why? Because you don't displace air when you don't fucking move.

    Any difference in your experiment results would have been caused your relative power outputs - with a tiny bit from differing rolling resistance.

    Dont doubt they are ripper wheels though. Keep it up Freddy boy.

    I thought the aero was all about the rim spinning around as opposed to movement through the air, i.e along the road?

  • Bike #1 started with some cheap Shimano wheels at close to 1900 grams..... soon followed by an old set of Velomax wheels at 1655.... and then ditched for some customs build by my son at 1405. They are SILVER on SILVER on SILVER and shine like they're on fire! Just gorgeous looking. Aerohead and Aerohead OC with 28 Revolutions cross 2, front and rear, laced to (here it comes)... Circus Monkey hubs. Cheap, light, rebuildable and sexy looking. Got a few 1000 miles on 'em and all smiles. Carbon? What's that? (re: Circus Monkey hubs.... it's a shame they couldn't come up with a better name for what is a pretty good product. Lot's of PNW folks use them for everything (cross, road, crits) and they deliver the goods for not much $$$. Find 'em on ebay.

  • @MaLóL I've built a few wheels on KinLin XR300 rims.  Nice and aero, quite strong, not too heavy and relatively inexpensive.  For braking performance and brake surface longevity, I can not go passed Mavic OpenPro Ceramic - but only for a front wheel, and with 32 spokes.  They're a bit light on for 8/9/10/11s rear ends.  CF rims are too expensive, suffer from poor braking when wet, and are really only useful with tubulars.

  • @piwakawaka umm no. Rim spinning is friction. Movement through air is Aero. Friction will count on rollers, not aero.

    And Marcus, keep up the good flight on AFL, I'm a West Coast supporter so my argument position is somewhat diminished.

  • @Dan_R

    I'm glad you have joined in. The more professional wheel builders the better. So what's the carbon clincher for Mouse?

  • @Gianni

    @Dan_R

    I'm glad you have joined in. The more professional wheel builders the better. So what's the carbon clincher for Mouse?

    Yeah. What?

    Does it weigh less that 1100 grams with skewers?

  • Carbone.  All the way.

    Heavier, cheap-ish 40mm carbon tubular rims (Gigantex or similar) that I don't care about for general riding and training (and racing, on the rare occasion I actually bother), nicer rims - shallow or deep - for nice days and 'Sunday Rides'.  ALWAYS decent hubs though.

    I've got a set of Nemesis, but when the anodising finally wore off of the rim surface (one wet ride did the trick) I fell out of love with them.

    Tart by name...

  • Another great write up, the lack of firm conclusion is like a red rag to a V-Snorting Bull!

    I am all for looking pro.....but have reservations here:

    1.  All Carbone wheels are not equal (some pig wrote that on a barn wall somewhere a while back).  These days the major manufacturers are putting alu break rims on their low end carbon wheels with a carbon core for the spokes, this saves cost and enables them to bring the price down but sacrifices some of the key benefits (weight/aero etc).

    2.  The day I am light enough to buy a set of these use on anything but molasses smooth tarmac, hell will have frozen over and the local curry house will have shut some months before initiating a dramatic improvement in the Deakus power to weight ratio.

    3.  Looking pro is great for those who have pro team budgets and a car following them with a replacement wheel for any slight niggle you might want correct.  My wheels need to take hard miles on dodgy roads and be easy/cheap to replace....hence I train on a set of £100 Campag Khamsins...the heavier the wheel....the better I am training!  Surely light should be reserved for racing?

    There is actually a pretty good article on cheaper Carbone rims in this months cyclist magazine, so this is really timely.

    I will be sticking to my Alu rims for now largely because I can get a set of 1500g wheels for under £500.....the budget is still one of the most important factors.

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