The Bikes
The Bike. It is the central tool in pursuit of our craft. A Velominatus meticulously maintains their bicycles and adorns them with the essential, yet minimal, accoutrement. The Rules specify the principles of good taste in configuration and setup of our machines, but within those principles lies almost infinite room for personal taste.
It seems in some ways like a kind of Stockholm Syndrome, the way we honor our machines. We love them to a point that lies well beyond obsession. Upon these machines upon we endure endless suffering, but also find an unending pleasure. The rhythm, the harmony between rider and machine, the outdoors, the wind in our faces and air in our lungs.
The Bikes is devoted entirely to our machines. Ours, The Keepers, and yours, the Community. It features articles devoted to our bikes, and proves a forum for uploading photos of your own machines for discussion. We will be harsh, but fair; this is a place to enforce and enhance our observation of The Rules.
If you’d like to submit an article about your own beloved bike, please feel free to send it to us and we’ll do our best to work with you to include it.
- Rule #12 and the Cascade Effect
That is a very reasonable opening salvo for the Rule about bike ownership. Three is good and certainly a minimum, and we are talking road bikes here, if there was any doubt. They naturally become ordered: the #1 is ichi-ban, top dog, go-to bike for every and all rides. #2 was the old #1, ... - Guest Article: Black Is Not The New Black@kogalover is singing my song here. Bikes are beautiful. ’nuff said. VLVV, Gianni With all those posts on riding in winter and being visible, either by putting Eyes of Sauron or other car melting devices on one’s steed, or by even considering a YJA instead of donning plain black kit, it was about time to finally get ...
- Dialing in the StableThis was going to be an article about Rule #45. It is amazing how much time is wasted and matches burned when professionals stop for that second bike change to get back on their #1. With all the jigs available to team mechanics it would seem they could set up five bikes exactly the same. And ...
- Matching the drapes to the rugAs a longtime titanium bike owner, I’ve always been jealous of a beautiful painted frame but Ti and carbon frames don’t need paint like a steel frame needs paint. But I want some painted beauty. It’s like buying a white car; I can’t do white, need some color. So between a Ti frame and a ...
- Festum Prophetae: Waiting for the HourEveryone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. – Mike Tyson The one thing everyone should always plan for is that however well-conceived a program might be, things will never go to plan. The high level plan for my Festum Prophetae Hour Ride was as follows: Have a custom Hour Bike built by Don Walker. Because reasons. Reasons like custom ...
@RobSandy
I’d be tempted to try that if that’s all it takes. I feel a trip to my LBS coming on at the w/e to have a peek at Groupsan rigs.
@Teocalli
trouble is then you don’t have anything retaining the cable as it is designed. Would you be happy just running the cable between two washers?
Got an N+1 opportunity? Why are you looking at Group-san?
@RobSandy
You need to flip the outer one so that the little tab is on the other side (assuming it has a tab) then it should be secure. I’ll get a pic shortly…….
@RobSandy
Ignore that – forgot which route we are talking! Wont the guide pin stop the cable slipping out anyway. Plus washer to washer isn’t greatly different from washer to mech arm – I don’t think………
@Teocalli
If I route the cable over the top of the arm then no, the guide pin will do nothing.
There’s a little lip around the arm where the washer/bolt screws down which retains the cable, but I don’t know how much this does once you have the bolt tight.
I have a mechanic friend, I’ll try and speak to him today on the phone and see if he has any bright ideas.
I could just forget the front mech and 1×11 it …*sound of vomitting*
@RobSandy
I do have one of my vintage rigs where I had to use two washers for a different set of reasons and not had an issue with that.
@Teocalli
Might do it. Once you’ve got them tight I doubt the lip on the arm does a lot. Looks reassuring though.
And it’s not like your wheels will come off if it does slip.
Can’t wait to see how the brakes work, fitting them Tuesday and they already feel…slick and powerful. Like me.
@RobSandy
If you could get one like this it would be secure…..LBS may have one off an old rear mech…….which is what I did on my vintage rig.
@RobSandy
Looks like the answer to your problem has already been addressed in an earlier post
(Just kidding!)
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/aqua-blue-sports-new-single-chainring-team-bike-unveiled-2018-357446
@MangoDave
*more vomiting *
I’ve tried all sorts tonight and nothing looks likely to work. Stumped. Previous owner said it was never a problem for him and I haven’t moved the FD.
@RobSandy
I can’t find the original post with you’re issue, but it sounds like what I went through. Are you trying to get the FD to move out to the big chainring, but it won’t go with the shift lever? If so, I had the same issue. I “fixed” it by manually holding the FD (while the shifter was shifted to the big ring) out over the big chain ring then tightening the cable there. It took two people, but seems to work just fine now. No idea what causes the issue, but it occurred with 11 speed Ultegra on an older bike. Good luck!
@Logan Sholar
Never mind, now I see your issue. Have you tried moving the cable guide under the bottom bracket one screw hole away from the right side? Sometimes there are two screw holes in the frame for the cable guide.
You don’t wanna know about the 3rd screw hole.
@Logan Sholar
Thanks but there is no cable guide under the BB. The cables and housings are internally routed and the the cable stop for the FD cable is a little cage on the outside of the seat tube.
It’s tucked directly behind and underneath the FD so I cannot see any way you can set it up (bearing in mind there is no fore/aft adjustment of the FD or mount) without the cable rubbing or catching on the back of the cage.
I took some photos yesterday but they are probably crap. Let me check.
@Logan Sholar
Pic 1 is looking towards the rear of the bike. You can see the white housing/red ferrule of the end of the housing in the cable stop. You can also see the end of the derailleur spring (up and to the left slightly). If I lower the derailleur to where it should be relative to the chainring, the end of the spring hits the cable stop. You can see the paint has been chipped where this has happened.
Pic 2 is the current line of the cable from the cable stop to the mounting bolt. I put a load of big ugly washers in there (I found one to retain the cable like @Teocalli suggested) but the cable still rubs on the lower of the two rivets. Doesn’t seem to make much of a difference if I route the cable over the mounting bolt or underneath.
I absolutely can’t think of anything I can do differently unless there is some adjustment in the FD itself I’m not aware of.
@RobSandy
That is weird. That mech came with the bike? The only think I can think at the moment is to check some other mechs (model/year) and see if they are shorter. I’ve not seen a frame with a cable stop there before.
The problem seems to be exacerbated by Shimano moving to the straight up lever. That whole concept seems a bit flawed to me as it seems to inevitably result in needing more pressure to shift – and there are comments to that effect on the ‘net.
@Teocalli
The mech came with the bike, previous owner tried to help but said he never found the same problem.
I think if I could push the arm further back or the whole FD forward it would solve the problem but there seems no way to do either of these things.
What would you think about clipping that extension of spring off visible in the top pic?
@RobSandy
Let me talk to my LBS at the weekend and I can have a look at some Groupsan and have a natter with them.
@Teocalli
Cheers, that’d be great. I’m asking as many people as possible at the moment and it’s baffling them all.
Going to take it to the best mech I know next week and see if he can come up with a solution – I explained it over the phone and he couldn’t think of anything obviously stupid I’d done which is always my first assumption.
You know what I love about this discussion? Years ago, I suggested that there be a section where Velominati could ask for tech help from the community. After all, we’re not all pro mechanics. It was roundly dismissed. Now what do we have? A community rallying around each other to solve a tech problem. I guess that’s what happens when there’s no no articles to discuss!
@wiscot
We all know you are wise and all knowing. Like a cross between Gandalf and Buddha or something.
Anyway, this is my first port of call for irritating problems.
@RobSandy
I like Gandalf’s body fat percentage, but will take the wisdom of Buddha.
I just love the collective wisdom that’s being applied to Rob Sandy’s front mech situ!
@wiscot
I’d love it more if there was a solution!
Not that I want to sound ungrateful however…
@RobSandy
Hmmm…..well……had a poke around and a lengthy chat in the LBS and it seems there are 3 options we can think of…….
Fundamentally that FD is not compatible really with that set up on the Felt frame as it need the anchor point on the FD lever more inboard. So the options we can think of:
1. Can you get to the inside of the frame where the outer cable exits? If so could you put a barrel adjuster cables to inside the frame and terminate the outer at that point and miss the frame mounted cable stop. If that is possible it may give a cable line that clears the FD.
2. You need an older FD with the lever arm further inboard so the cable route would then be clear of the FD cage.
3. You need a 2018 FD. Groupsan have completely changed the whole cable attachment to the mech for 2018 and you can either terminate the outer at the mech or per #2 the cable attaches more inboard and so you would not have the same problem.
1 didn’t come out making much sense!
If you can get to the inside of the frame where the cable comes out could you c=get a barrel adjuster in there so that you terminate the outer cable inside the frame. That might give a better line to the FD if you ignore the cable stop on the seat tube (though it might get in the way).
Of the set 3 would be the best – esp with Christmas coming up………..!
@Teocalli
Made sense to me. Thanks so much for looking into it.
Option 1 wouldn’t work though. Fiddly enough getting the housing through there!
I’ve actually almost got it working, apart from masses of chain rub and the cage being far too high and way out of line. It will change the chain from the inner to outer ring.
May take it for a big ring only spin tomorrow.
@Teocalli
I also wondered about option 3, wouldn’t be a very expensive solution if it worked.
@RobSandy
As long as you get the Shimano Ultegra 18 Front Derailleur FD-R8000F type of model it should be fine. I was looking at them on some of the new bikes in the LBS and the cable routes up inboard of the whole mech or you can take the outer right up to the FD and terminate it on a cable stop on the FD itself.
I’m trying to picture the cable routing on that Felt for the FD @RobSandy . It would appear that the cable does not travel down under the BB and turn back up toward the FD coming up between the chain stays from behind the seat tube? That seems to be the more common path lately. But instead exits above the BB on the side of frame and behind the crank ? That almost looks like the traditional exit point for a Di2 cable yes ? Interesting having a cable stop right there however. It would seem to me that if somehow you can get the cable traveling a more traditional route it would then have the leverage needed to operate the FD but it’s hard to picture this w/o actually seeing it in operation.
@Randy C
I think you’ve nailed it – really, the frame is designed for Di2.
I read the user manual this morning and there is a note about using the low limit screw to adjust the angle of the RD relative to the chainrings. It’s currently way off. I wonder if I should try that?
I also think that without that extension of spring (see the pic above) the action of the derailleur wouldn’t foul on the cable stop and I could move it lower. I’m very reluctant to snip it off however.
Just taken the bike for the first ride though on a nice dry, chilly afternoon. It is fast. Got some PBs without really trying. Geo is perfect for me, and it’s stiff, light responsive and silent. Can’t wait to get this FD issue sorted, tape it up and race the shit out of it.
@Teocalli
Those bars are perfect. Thanks again.
@RobSandy
Sweet
She looks nice @teocalli, I miss my AR3… and you are right, they are stiff, light and responsive. Please excuse the compact, and the lights… This was taken about two days before her untimely demise.
@Cameron W
Awesome. I think the finishes of Felts back then, say, 5 years ago, were much nicer than the newest ones.
But, hey, we need to talk about front derailleurs…
@RobSandy
I had the same thought, and was also intrigued by the wording of the question about PEDs – do I think they use PEDs, which I do, as opposed to illegal PEDs. Trying to decide whether that was deliberate wording, and also wonder how many respondents would make the same differentiation.
Anyone know if @BuckRogers is still around?
@KogaLover
In spirit, he is always around and deeply embedded in this website and community.
@RobSandy
I was running Sram Red 10sp (pre yaw) on the Felt with no issues, I have Group-san on my new bike (BMC), so maybe I can get a handle on what the issue is.
I’ll have a look at them when I get home tonight and see if can figure out a fix.
@Cameron W
Cheers mate. Having been through the user manual in detail I think I need to take it all apart and start from scratch – the cage is way out of alignment and getting that right is stage 1 of the set up for a braze-on mounted FD.
It suggests you use the low limit screw to do this which is a bit of a head scratcher but I’m going to have a bit of a look at it tonight and see if I can get it going. I actually did get the derailleur working but I’d never be able to ride it without chain scrape the way it’s currently set up.
@RobSandy
I think you’d be better off buying a different derailleur. No more than 20 quid off eBay or the like.
And no more headaches! I’m pretty sure this is simply an unlucky incompatibly issue.
Even with the existing industry tolerances, this happens now and again……
@KogaLover
Buck has retreated from the online connected world for the month of November.
He’ll be back in December.
@martin Pont
I think that’s what I’ll do if my next attempt doesn’t work and my mechanic doesn’t have any ideas.
It came with the bike but it’s possible the guy stuck it on there to sell and never tried to set it up properly.
My frame has this to route the front cable, something like this would probably give you enough clearance as it brings the cable hard up against the seat tube rather than exiting from a cable stop a few mm further out. Looking at your pics I think the solution is going to be to fit a front derailleur with a more inboard mounting point for the cable, or the R8000. Also – starting from scratch is probably a good idea. Cheaper than buying new parts which may or may not sort the problem…
@Cameron W
Thanks for having a look at that for me. I started from scratch last night, and before I started I clipped off 4mm ish of protruding spring from the back of the FD. That helped, I got the derailleur lower so at more or less the correct height it wasn’t hitting the cable stop when swinging in.
But it was pressing on the cable so wouldn’t swing fully in. I’ve almost got it working perfectly actually, but I would have constant chain scrape in the bottom 3 sprockets.
I also followed the instructions on how to align the cage using the limit screw but couldn’t see at all how that worked.
I can’t see how you could ever get that frame to work with that FD, perhaps unless you were running a standard crankset so the FD was higher.
@Rob
@RobSandy
My Felt FC this morning before I set out on a commute ride in the dark (I don’t usually commute via bike but today presented an opportunity).
Also, in case anyone is interested in my review of Absolute Black oval chainrings on PEZ Cycling News.
https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/technspec/absolute-black-oval-chainrings-review/#.WgzjwbaZPdQ
@chuckp
Sweet. Always nice to see pictures of bikes. And always a bit of time for Felt appreciation (except for the stupid design of the cable stop for the FD on the AR1 grumble grumble). And commuting by bike is the balls.
Trying to decide on wheels now. I think I have my heart set on a set of mavic semi-carbon clinchers. Trying to decide between buying some 2nd hand Cosmic SLs with a 50mm rim and alloy brake surface for about £300 or stumping up for my mechanics Cosmic CXRs with a 60mm rim and exalith brake surface for £500.
@RobSandy
Less is more! 35/38mm profile good all rounders. Are you racing/training/commuting? Seen dudes out on 60mm plus profiles on training rides and cross winds knock them over into the opposite lane!
@sthilzy
These are race wheels only. Crits, road races and TTs. The Fulcrum as pictured above are the ‘everyday’ wheels for that bike but really that’s just a race bike.
Crosswinds wont affect me, I’m massive.
I know my mechanics wheels will be as new, he’s a total Velominatus when it comes to keeping bikes clean and in silent, perfect working order. Just some budget concerns…
@Teocalli
Did you notice when looking the the R8000 derailleurs…did they have cable tension adjustment on the derailleur itself?
I think this will be the easiest solution and I’m just about to buy one. Hopefully I can recoup some of the cost by flogging the 6800 FD on the ebays.
I’m wondering whether to take it to the mech with a barrel adjuster – reading the blurb it seems like you might not need it.