This winter Shimano showed up on Maui with a flotilla of Colnago C-59s set up with disc brakes. The lucky Shimano people tested the bikes on some of the nicest routes on the island, including some descending down the Haleakala volcano. Unbelievably they didn’t invite me along (!?). If they had I would have suggested a different place to ride, one that is usually wet and full of descending corners. Any brake system and any tire works well on dry roads, maybe Shimano was here for the riding, not the testing.
Haleakala’s windward coast road is a sinuous mostly two lane magic carpet ride through rainforest. The road gains and looses elevation as it dives in to cross a river then climbs up out around the next headland, again and again. And it is often wet. If you want to find out if you trust your tires, this is the place.
I already know caliper brakes on machined aluminum rims are nearly worthless when it’s raining on this route. I have a theory that brake pads here get hardened by heat on steep dry descents and then they become hard grit holders, not good for braking when wet. Shimano should have done this ride in the rain.
There is a 10km section of this route that is mostly all down, 3-4% grade and there are many corners, a few a little off-camber. Two of us have lost it in different corners here. Both were the result of wet brakes, too much speed and a little inattention. The point is, caliper brakes suck in wet twisting descents.
To remedy this, the grand master of this ride, @mauibike, put on an ENVE road disc front fork on his Madone. His bike deserves its own article but suffice it to say his bike has some north shore Maui terroir. He is the only old school racer I know who never switched to clincher tires after his racing license expired. He is also now all carbone wheels, all the time. He has a bike that has been adapted to the terrain and it’s very cool.
I’m thinking about this because I would like to go all carbone wheel, all the time too. If Cancellara can race Milan-Sanremo, the Ronde and Paris-Roubaix all on the same carbon wheelset, I’m already persuaded. But carbon clinchers on Maui seem like a bad idea. There are a few steep descents with ninety-degree corners where one can’t help but get on the brakes long and hard. I foresee bad things happening to my front wheel and my beautiful face. I’ve used sew-up tires for years so I don’t fear them but I do like the simplicity of tire patching not involving sutures and a field operating theater. I think carbon tubulars are better for Maui but road disc seem much smarter. Why involve the carbon fiber rim in the braking at all? Steel seems like the material we want, it won’t wear and it conducts heat beautifully. Rain would only cool it down and improve its braking.
As a rider of SMP saddles and now Bont shoes, I’m clearly going for function over form and I don’t think I have large aesthetic issues with disc brakes. I do have a problem if they violate any principles of silence. No one needs to hear that screech on a road ride.
In my continuing series of “endorsing things I’ve haven’t used yet” (see tubeless tires). I’m liking the idea of a terroir bike, a bike that speaks to the roads it rolls on, and for Maui, that could include a front disc brake.
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@EricW
I think what got @mauibike thinking along these lines originally was when his front tubular tire (on carbon ENVE rim) crept around the rim when the glue got so hot things started to move. The valve stem was at a wicked angle, so he put the front wheel in the other way, went down the same hill until the valve stem was plumb again. That gives a man pause. It makes him think there might be a better way.
@Gianni
That is fucking science right there.
All this disc brake hate, no! On a ride bike, too..
@roger
Wow, those are some dead sexy disc hubs. Are those for the Seven? Whatever they are for, I approve.
Don't know how long a descent and at what grade you need to start melting quality rims but my Roval CL60's (clincers) were nothing short of perfect for the recent Scody 3 Peaks Challenge. I cautiously tested the heat of the braking track at the base of Falls Creek (front) and found it to be cool. Ambient was in the teens (°C) but it was something like 20km of endless corners, 55km/hr average down about 5-6% grade. I have heard of many carbone rims delaminating but each time I ask the same thing "were they cheapies?" and "Did you use good braking technique". Each time it was "yes" and "maybe".
This Article is about wet road decending so carbone failures due to heat is OT (but hey, this is post #24). How do they go in the Wet? Pretty good actually... better than a disc? Unlikely. As good as an alloy brake track? Very close, just a little slower to dry out. Since we are talking wet road descending, you sure the tyre (tire!) grip isn't the real limiting factor here? Personally I like to dab the brakes before coming to corners to dry them out before I need them. Something I learned riding motorcycles, which despite having two discs up front, still do suffer from wet pads/discs.
@Gianni
Dan tries to sell me one every time I go to Cafe Roubaix...one of these days I may crack...
What set-up would you choose?
you can buy Shimano R785 levers separately and an XTR brake caliper - if it's good enough for Sven (on his Boone, prior to that it was always Spooky carbons)- it might be good enough for you!
go for it and post the results!
@Barracuda
The carbon specific pads are mostly about not trashing your rim every time you brake - a brake pad compound made for alloy rims is like going after carbon fiber with a sandblaster.
Rim-braked carbon clinchers have no place in mountainous terrain. Many Gran Fondo organizers go so far as to ban them entirely. Discs are the future, no doubt about it. Pity they're so ugly.
Carbon clinchers are silly under any circumstances - if you're going to blow a few grand on an aero wheelset, why fuck around? Get a set of tubs and be done with it.
If you're worried about punctures, puts some Vittoria Pavé tires on - I've been commuting on a set of these for the last two years and have had exactly 1 puncture. Note that said puncture occurred during an emergency stop where I skidded over a nail, resulting in said nail sticking out the side of my tire. I pulled it out, put some superglue on the holes, sealed the tire with some Pit Stop, and went on with my ride. Repair took less than 3 minutes. Pavés aren't cheap, but seriously, you're blowing $2k+ on fucking wheels - spring for some top class rubber while you're at it.
I don't buy the whole "Carbon wears out faster". My aluminium rims are all worn at the braking surface, some more and some less, after two to three years of loyal service. My mum's carbon clinchers, fancy (at the time) ENVEs that are now 5 years old, still look and feel as good as new, even though she rides twice my weekly mileage, races more and longer, and is a far worse descender than I am (read: brakes more than necessary).
Sure, braking on them in the wet is a bit of a gamble, but the newer generation of carbon wheels pretty much has it figured out. My mates on Zipps and Bontragers ride them day in day out, rain sun and sandstorm - I've yet to find a time when my aluminium wheels were superior.
@antihero
Err, speed is a good enough reason. If you're going to blow that money on marginal aero gains, you might as well go the whole hog and maximize rolling resistance. Discounting velodrome tyres, you can't go faster than a Conti Supersonic TT clincher with latex tubes. If you're not exactly Tony Martin, then the Conti GP4000s and Vittoria Corsa Evo clinchers are nearly as fast but with a hint of protection.