This winter Shimano showed up on Maui with a flotilla of Colnago C-59s set up with disc brakes. The lucky Shimano people tested the bikes on some of the nicest routes on the island, including some descending down the Haleakala volcano. Unbelievably they didn’t invite me along (!?). If they had I would have suggested a different place to ride, one that is usually wet and full of descending corners. Any brake system and any tire works well on dry roads, maybe Shimano was here for the riding, not the testing.
Haleakala’s windward coast road is a sinuous mostly two lane magic carpet ride through rainforest. The road gains and looses elevation as it dives in to cross a river then climbs up out around the next headland, again and again. And it is often wet. If you want to find out if you trust your tires, this is the place.
I already know caliper brakes on machined aluminum rims are nearly worthless when it’s raining on this route. I have a theory that brake pads here get hardened by heat on steep dry descents and then they become hard grit holders, not good for braking when wet. Shimano should have done this ride in the rain.
There is a 10km section of this route that is mostly all down, 3-4% grade and there are many corners, a few a little off-camber. Two of us have lost it in different corners here. Both were the result of wet brakes, too much speed and a little inattention. The point is, caliper brakes suck in wet twisting descents.
To remedy this, the grand master of this ride, @mauibike, put on an ENVE road disc front fork on his Madone. His bike deserves its own article but suffice it to say his bike has some north shore Maui terroir. He is the only old school racer I know who never switched to clincher tires after his racing license expired. He is also now all carbone wheels, all the time. He has a bike that has been adapted to the terrain and it’s very cool.
I’m thinking about this because I would like to go all carbone wheel, all the time too. If Cancellara can race Milan-Sanremo, the Ronde and Paris-Roubaix all on the same carbon wheelset, I’m already persuaded. But carbon clinchers on Maui seem like a bad idea. There are a few steep descents with ninety-degree corners where one can’t help but get on the brakes long and hard. I foresee bad things happening to my front wheel and my beautiful face. I’ve used sew-up tires for years so I don’t fear them but I do like the simplicity of tire patching not involving sutures and a field operating theater. I think carbon tubulars are better for Maui but road disc seem much smarter. Why involve the carbon fiber rim in the braking at all? Steel seems like the material we want, it won’t wear and it conducts heat beautifully. Rain would only cool it down and improve its braking.
As a rider of SMP saddles and now Bont shoes, I’m clearly going for function over form and I don’t think I have large aesthetic issues with disc brakes. I do have a problem if they violate any principles of silence. No one needs to hear that screech on a road ride.
In my continuing series of “endorsing things I’ve haven’t used yet” (see tubeless tires). I’m liking the idea of a terroir bike, a bike that speaks to the roads it rolls on, and for Maui, that could include a front disc brake.
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@ChrisO , when stopping, the front wheel generates most of the braking force as it is the leading friction point of the machine. It is also the most important to feather (which is why, I believe, Campa has the dual pivot front - not for force, but for buttery smooth control) because it's the same wheel that decides which way the bike is going to go. If the front locks up too easy the options are A.) cartwheel over the hoods, or B.) linear travel in a direction no longer desired (see Hinault v. Bastille).
One can lock/slide a rear wheel and retain a semblance of control in a corner (not like this guy) but given that we're connected to the road by a friction patch smaller than the smartphone most of us have stuffed into the pocket, anything helps.
But some of it looks really ugly.
I now ride with an SMP saddle thanks to reading a review of it on this site. It's been a significant plus for my cycling (relief of LBP), so many thanks. Disc brakes? If you're riding a lot in the wet, a real option. Otherwise, nothing compelling about 'em.
@antihero
Well, point by point from the last to the first:
1) The Supersonic TT is available in tubular as well, and the Pave as clincher. So you can opt for fragility or sturdiness regardless of mounting mechanism. You can TT with a ThickSlick as far as I'm concerned. I've ridden the Corsa Evo for nearly two years now on my race wheels - that's a solid 2000km of racing and about half that for a few key training sessions - and am yet to puncture.
2) ProTour TTs are held on swept roads, and yes, the pros still puncture. To them, the trade-off is worth it since it's the absolute fastest setup there is. And no, I wouldn't ride around every day on a special purpose tyre. I train on Conti 4Seasons or Schwalbe Duranos.
3) High-speed cornering on a properly-glued tub and a properly-mounted clincher is 100% on both wheels, and any perceived advantage is a placebo. Friction is a pretty simple mechanical quantity, and I suggest trying a double-blind test of a Corsa Evo Open and a Corsa Evo tub before you say they corner "better". FWIW, I've seen more tubulars rolled than I've ever seen a clincher dislodge.
4) The pro peloton has this issue of puncturing in the midst of 200 other guys going +50km/h. That means rolling out of the peloton safely on a tubular is important, and I give you that, that's the tubular tyre's advantage. However, since the three-time world TT champion rode clinchers for the past three years (as did some of his teammates), I wouldn't exactly say they've ignored the facts.
5) Pros also don't pay for tyres and don't have to glue the fuckers, which is why you'll find Ted King riding tubulars in Europe, but not when he's training at home.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the pros think. They have all sorts of superstitions, habits and traditions that slow them down. Try finding a faster road setup than a Zipp Super9/808 or HED Jet Disc/9 combo with latex tubes and a GP4000s.
@Gianni
@antihero hit it on the head, the carbon compounds are basically for keeping the resin surface fresh. Since I run carbone Bontragers, I know very well about crappy braking surfaces with subpar resin. I just love Bontrager's solution of cork pads. Here's a conversation I had:
EricW: "Why cork?"
Bontrager Rep: "It doesn't have as much friction so it doesn't get as hot."
E: "...sooooo your solution to keeping the wheels cooler is to...brake less...?"
(pause)
B: "There is less friction between the pad and wheel"
I haven't read the (surely fucked up) commentary on this thread yet, due to my job's apparent obtuseness to the fact that Velominati is much more important than anything happening at the client.
Anyhooooooo...Gianni, you are on probation.
Seriously, though, I see a kind of beauty in these frankenmonster bikes that are highly tuned for their intended purpose. That's what I love about Gravel, there are so many ideas coming out of as people try to sort out what works best for their use of the bike. That's really what its all about in the end - I mean, it better fucking Look Fantastic, but really we just want the best bike for the best purpose. That's how every cool innovation in Cycling has come about.
@mauibike's rad mochean is an abomination so horrible its cool - although I hear tell he abandoned his terraced cassette. Purely designed to do what he needs it to. To that, I say "hat".
Gianni, regarding your wheel conundrum.
FIRST RULE OF CARBON WHEELS: No fucking carbon clinchers for you, my friend, not unless its a disc brake. Think that one through: thin carbon wall under high lateral pressure to stop (too much) moving mass on a steep incline. A mate who works at HED, after riding with me in Seattle, said: "Don't you ever buy a carbon clincher - not mine, not anyone's." That is just asking for a failure.
SECOND RULE OF CARBON WHEELS: Tubulars are sooooooooooo nice. Keep the alus for Clincher tarmac, get a cheap light 19mm tubular as a spare (I got a Tufo for $70) under the saddle to get home and buy three tires to start with. When you flat, send it off to a company that fixes them for $5, like the one here in Seattle. Add postage and everyone wins.
Next, next time I'm in Hawaii, you ride my wheels for a few days. The carbon rims are actually my preferred material for rain based on how well they stop - much better than alu. Granted, you burn through brake pads - my record is two in a wet season - but I'll gladly pay $20 for new pads halfway through a season if it means my bike stops and it doesn't look like a motorcycle.
@EricW
If he was a Velominatus, his answer would be, "Yes, Isn't yours? Why brake more?"
I will look up the name of my pads - they are great and stop the bike very well and I've had no issue with the rims heating up too much (i.e. to where the tire might roll) but like I said above they do wear quickly.
I don't get why people think disk road bikes are ugly.
They are't traditional, but nor are carbon aero wheels.
@tessar
Word! I agree to all those things. You are wise.
@frank
I thought I was already on probation for earlier posts regarding EPMS, SMP saddles, or generally not toeing the line around here. I like probation, it's part of my brand.
And yes, I agree, better to wear down brake pads, they are cheap. And like I said in the POST, carbone clinchers are not for me and Maui.
@The Grande Fondue
I could work with that!