I suspect that whoever first put a set of downtube shifters on a bike immediately knew that while it was superior to having the shifter on the seat stay, it was a design that was going to be improved upon. Not only did it require being seated to shift, it also required taking your hands off the bars. Shimano got close with the introduction of the STI shifter in the early bit of the 90’s, although the decision to allow the brake lever to pivot laterally was a fundamental flaw.
I remember the first time I saw a set of STI levers in person; I was at County Cycles and they had a complete set of Dura Ace 7400 in the box. It was a truly beautiful groupset, and the metal details on the shifters were as stunning in my hands as they were glinting sunlight off the Pros as they crossed countless finish lines with their arms aloft. The price point was well out of reach, and so I dove headlong into various experiments to find a way to get my shifters on the bars.
Bar-end shifters didn’t look cool so they were out, full stop. I first tried Grip Shift, which was a complete disaster, partly because they didn’t shift well, and partly because they required twisting the bars and invariably introduced a terrifying wobble toward either traffic or the ditch. The low point of my experimentation involved mountain bike thumb shifters mounted near the brake levers, but I couldn’t get them positioned in a way that I could reach them. Cue more wobbling into traffic. Finally I got a set of Suntour Command Shifters, which were basically double-ended thumb shifters that were mounted at the brake lever. These might have worked well, except I couldn’t afford a Suntour rear mech, and the Command Shifters couldn’t get along with my Shimano 105 drivetrain. I had no alternative but to set those shifters to friction, which meant even more wobbling about as I tried to coax it from one gear to the next. But being unsuccessful didn’t mean it wasn’t fun, and when Shimano finally released a 105 STI version – which I could afford – I was that much happier to finally realize my dream of having functional handle-bar mounted shifters.
I’ve never liked the lateral pivot off the STI system, though, and once I could afford to, I moved to Campa and their superior design of incorporating a Go Button along with a paddle shifter. Campagnolo, for all its beauty and functional flawlessness, does require some coddling. It doesn’t particularly like being dirty, and I find myself tweaking the cable tension a few times a week – just a fraction of a turn – to keep it perfect. Because a perfectly tuned Campa drive train runs more perfectly and more silently than anything else – and the Principle of Silence holds sway over all else.
When it came time to building up my Graveur, I never seriously considered Campa because doing that on a bike intended for taking regular mud baths demands something less finicky. And I really don’t want my brake lever wobbling about as I’m trying to control a bouncing, bobbing machine on a twisting gravel or single track descent. Shimano was out, which left me with the choice between Command Shifters and SRAM. SRAM it is, then.
It took me an age to get used to how to adjust it, and how to shift. It requires a lot less cable tension than Shimano or Campa, a trick that took me a while to discover. Upshifts are totally awesome – tap, tap, tap and the chain just drops down along the cassette irrespective of mud or sticks or whatever is in there. I found half a tree trunk in my cassette after my ride this morning, and it didn’t adversely affect the shifting. The front shifting is absolutely blazingly fast, once you get the thing adjusted correctly. And the hoods themselves are very comfortable, possibly even more so than my 10spd Ergos.
But to this day, I still have to think about downshifting (push, *click*, push a bit more, *click*). And Merckx forbid I try shifting more than one gear at a time – I’ll invariably lose track of my clicks and wind up air-shifting between cogs. That’s going to inspire some new curses in a race situation, so there’s that to look forward to.
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@RedRanger I don't think the crank makes any difference (it's the bearings that are the problem). A report I read showed that the BB30 crank wasn't measurably stiffer.
I love Shimano's front shifting so I would go for an Ultegra crank.
@G'rilla sounds like the sensible thing to do when the time comes. I was at my LBS the other day getting tubes and they had all the high end groups in a display case. I was amazed how much less an ultegra crank was compared to some of the chic stuff by Tune and Lightning that they sell.
@RedRanger Tune and Lightning? I can see you're planning ahead based on your upcoming aerospace industry salary.
@G'rilla
My income seems to be overstated by pretty much everyone I talk to. Im just gonna be a aircraft mechanic(a knuckle dragger). But Im single with no kids so all my income is mine and what better to enjoy that income than to spend some of it on bikes. BTW these Lightning Cranks dont seem much more than any aftermarket higher end crank, as in Cannondale hollow gram(or what ever) and FSA.
The Ultegras I saw in the display case were less than $400.
@G'rilla Of course, I can probably get the entire Ultegra 6700 group for not much more than those cranks.
@G'rilla
Very interesting conversation - makes me wonder if there would be enough power in the discs for descending, as I am a last second full whack brake into the entry of the hairpin type rider, and the overheating rotors sounds a big issue - Mmmm
Regarding the disc brakes, I don't think they will improve braking over the rim brakes in function, but the abomination will arise because I am trying to have one bike (respect to n+1, but now I am buying race bikes and MTBs for the kids and wife, the budget needs attention) - so I thought a Cx disc, would allow me to switch between carbon rims and allow road rims easily, and not wear my rims out
As I say, I may have to hold onto my Roubaix Expert, but that will be a fight for the other end of the winter - I need to make sure the new S-works Crux frame is up for the big mountain stuff - I suspect it won't be
Still slightly concerned that for the one bike solution, the cantis wouldn't give me the power I need on the descents
I find the evolution from rim to hub mounted disc interesting. From a motorcycle point of view, Buell split with tradition by moving the disc from the hub to the rim. He did this because the braking forces no longer had to be transmitted by the spokes, so they were smaller, so the wheel was lighter.
In a bicycle, the opposite is true in that you want the weight moved to the hub and keep the external rotating forces lighter despite a heavy disc being added to the hub. In doing this I wonder what effect this has on the wheel (spokes) during heavy braking. I am not sure that on a disc brake equipped clincher wheel the rim is any lighter, it has to hold the tyre in both cases so in the end, the wheel is heavier but braking performance is increased especially in the wet. What we need is hydraulic rim brakes (ala SRAM) but with disc brake pad materials. A heavier rim is required to conteract the wear rate of the course pads, but the net is lighter?
I don't know the answer to any of these questions.... but it is an interesting thought experiment. For now, I prefer the tradition rim brake.
@Dr C
in my experience, the cx-50/70 has been able to stop the rig on and off road in the wet well.
as I mentioned, the disc stopping power is top notch. so there are 2 main reasons to not go disc- if you race, neutral wheels will typically be shimano/sram compatible 10 speed, not disc. the other is the aggregation of weight, complexity and tradition.
@Puffy @gaswepass
interesting indeed - I don't race to the extent that anyone on a yellow motorbike will be giving me a yellow wheel if my tub blows
I suspect there is no bike that fits all purposes - I rode my wife's 105 clad Defy 0 into work this morning in the pishing rain, and the brakes were tragic - probably needs better pads - I haven't ridden with new cantis yet, they may surprise me
I might try the TRP V-brakes Fronk suggests, though they are so old fashioned looking on a new frame (no offence F) with that curvy bit of metal piping - but if they work, that may be the solution - the Avid Ultimates look pretty cool though, so maybe give them a go too, and play with the pads a bit
At some stage in the next few months, I'll need to decide, disc or canti on the new frame, coz I won't be getting another one for a long time!
Of course there is stopping a carbon rim with cantis in the wet vs discs to consider too - must be little doubting the discs in that scenario
I'm also concerned about the strain that goes on the spokes when you disc brake the hub hard on grippy terrain - at least the fork mount takes all the mullah when you have rims stoppers - I don't see too many disc hubs for sale with less than 32h