Weight Weenies
My bike weighs about 6 kilos. It is no waify little thing either, with it having a 61cm frame and and three stories of seatpost. It has beefy tubes, a stiff bottom bracket and steerer, and deep section wheels which are laced 3x in the back and 2x in front. This bike has never made me go faster; only going faster has made me go faster.
Gianni rode Haleakala in the 80’s on a heavy steel frame with a 42T chainring and a 23T cog in the back. He rode it wearing a cuttoff sleeveless t-shirt; an offense which, had I known when we started this site, I would have put him on probation for. Then he did it again several years later on a titanium, campa-equipped steed with a compact and wearing proper kit. He rode it in about the same time, also proving that you go as fast as you want, not as fast as your bike is.
Gianni Bugno (different Gianni but possibly the source of inspiration for Keeper Gianni’s name), won back-to-back l’Alpe d’Huez stages on a 24-pound steel Moser, beating lighter carbon TVT’s to the punch both times.
Riding light bikes is fun, but they won’t make you go any faster. Pushing harder on the pedals does.
…you go as fast as you want, not as fast as your bike is.
Beautiful.
We are with one accord — pushing harder — greater momentum — amazing moment!
Last year I was 2nd fastest in a very hilly sportive on a bike weighing about 14 kilos, at a time when I weighed at least 96 k.
However, I’m doing it again this year (albeit a longer version) with a 9kg bike and weighing more like 96 kilos. I’m expecting to push harder on the pedals indeed, but my bike will be travelling a lot faster.
Riding a light bike might not make one faster, but riding a heavy bike absolutely will, provided of course that one measures speed only on the lighter bike.
To wit: the commuter is somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 kg before anything goes in the panniers. Number 1 is around 8 kg. I know from experience and that putting in miles on the heavier bike makes me faster on the lighter. It’s just constant leg presses to get anywhere.
@Owen
I’ll second that. Riding my steel bikes definitely has made me faster on the carbon #1. However, there is another factor, there are two flat stretches of rough tarmac in my regular rides where my PR is still set on the steel bikes. The compliance of steel wins out even over a top end carbon with inbuilt compliance which #1 most definitely is.
@Teocalli
I have definitely crushed at least one Strava segment in the area on the commuter simply because it’s so godawful rough that no one wants to risk their carbon steeds by hitting the stretch hard. I certainly don’t since if I break my bike I’m just out of luck. Aluminum is definitely more jarring but the giant tires make up for it.
Train heavy, race light. Simple.
Do you have a source that Gianni Bugno’s TdF-ridden steel Moser weighed 10.8 kgs?
@RVester
@frank‘s source for all his ‘facts’ is being Dutch.
The guy who owns my LBS has a great line “I can make it lighter but I can’t make it any faster”.
It’s fun to have a light bike but I hope none of you are rocking silly lightweight skewers or brakes.
@piwakawaka
That combination of comments could well result in the +1 badge this week, it would have my vote.
@Nate
@frank must be, to get a 61cm under 6kgs…
@frank 61cm?? I thought you would have subscribed to the popular ‘down-sized’ trend. I also ride a 61 at 6’4″ and was considering downsizing…who knew?
@piwakawaka
Source ? Who the hell uses credible information to back up facts ?
That’s absurd
@JohnB
When I was 10, I had this nutty idea of wearing a weighted suit around to get “super hero strength.” It didn’t really work all that well (actually not at all, but we’re talking little kid logic here). I think a lot of folks train heavy (re: fat) and race light (re: less fat). I’m not so sure that works all that well either.
Train heavy, race light is one of the biggest myths out there. Ever seen a pro jump on a heavy bike to train? Training is simple, effort (watts) and heart rate. You can only push out so many watts or get your heart rate to X. The weight of the bike makes no difference to what your physiology allows you to do and improvements you can make via training properly.
@Barracuda
The day we start to cite sources or in any other way become credible is the day I shut this place down.
@piwakawaka
+1 badge to you, matey. Strong work.
Also I know the weight is right, just can’t prove it. So yeah, I’m using the Dutch Clairvoyance Based On Shit You Know But Can’t Be Arsed To Prove edition of the Scientific Method.
I love that no one is questioning my facts on how much Gianni sucks at climbing.
@Owen
Having ridden the Carrefour and Arenberg and the rest of Roubaix and Flanders on my above-mentioned carbon steed, I call bullshit.
That said, lightweight does no good on the flat.
@Daccordi Rider
Given a set max heart rate, and a set max wattage, a heavier/less aero bike will have you hitting your ceilings sooner on hills/in wind, and for longer seeing as it is slower over the same distance. What you say is true, if you rode at your maximums for the same length of time on a good bike and a shit bike, your body has done the same amount of work. But when you would be finished on your good bike, you are probably still a fair way away from home when riding the shit bike, because over the distance you are slower. Therefore you spend longer riding at your maximums to get home. More time at max = greater training progression.
Did you see the chap ride Ventoux on a Boris bike? Same wattage, same max heart rate, but I bet he would have made the top faster on a lighter bike with less rolling resistance in the tyres and a more aero position. His body would have done less work against 1) friction through tyres 2)gravity as he has less mass to accelerate on the vertical vector up the hill and 3)wind resistance.
If you want to improve your FTP, you need to spend more time at threshold right? So a shit bike will put you in the hurt locker sooner and for longer. Minimal gains and all that.
But really, it’s more fun to ride faster on a nice bike (whether you see it as heavy or light) and just push yourself harder, which is what I think the big man is getting at. So who gives a fuck about the theory.
@The Pressure
My frame is downsized. Your height does not relate to frame size; your physique does.
Not to mention that a frame size is not frame size is a not a frame size. Pay attention to geometry, not labels. The most important dimension for me is the head tube length (19.5cm or less).
@frank
There’s a quoted source somewhere, I just cant be arsed finding it, and I’m not even dutch !
@Ccos
I rode all of Keepers Tour with a seized bottom bracket. Since replacing it, I’ve been fucking flying. Also commuting with a backpack and then riding without seems to help, but all that is pretty anecdotal.
I think it has more to do with morale than science, but I’m the first to tell you a good head with a bad body will do you more good than a good body with a bad head.
@Beers
We seem to be in basic agreement, you will ride further on the good bike and enjoy it more so get more benefit both to body and mind! Recently some guys in Australia did an Everesting on those free town bikes, 18 kg and 3 spd. Now there is no doubt that was good training, if a tad insane!
How about a picture of the <6 kilo bike
@frank
A rider is made up of two parts, a mind and a body. The mind is the more important part.
@piwakawaka
It’s been about a year since I saw @franks bike but iirc he has it set up with record 10 brakes and proper skewers.
Franks bike is up there, ^ with it’s oddly positioned hoods….
@Daccordi Rider
You are both totally correct – that’s why the competitive cycling world works on power to weight numbers.
I thought of pointing this out when I read the article but then I thought better of it.
Sometimes Frank likes to write utter bollocks and to intrude on it would be like pointing out the plot holes in Jurassic World. Steel Bikes and Bugno are the cycling equivalent of Raptors and Rexes. Just accept the fantasy.
@frank
Well I’ve ridden Carrefour and sections around there on carbon this year. Near shook my fillings out. I can’t help but wonder whether there would be a difference on steel. I suspect the conclusions would be – near shook my fillings out.
@Nate
Who was it that said “It’s simply a matter of mind over matter, I don’t mind and you don’t matter” – probably from a Bond film when some baddie thought they were going to manage to finish him off.
@Daccordi Rider
L’Eroica Britannia figures are something like 160 Km, 2,500 m climb, 11 kg bike, 5Sp (with triple). Time about 1.5 hr longer than the same on lightweight carbon 22 Sp.
It may all have been in the mind – even back then – but I remember fondly the days immediately upon return from long cycling holidays (weeks of riding, 1000’s of km’s, mountains…)
I would almost literally be flying during the first couple of rides after returning home (and after taking the sleeping bag, tent, panniers and racks etc. off, reducing the weight of the (steel) machine from 20+ back to a feathery 11 or 12 kilo’s). What a feeling.
@ErikdR
That’s not in your mind, it’s being fit from cycling lots. No doubt if you ride a heavy bike lots then jump on a light one you will feel unshackled so to speak. But for equal training you won’t be any fitter than the guy on the light bike who has worked himself at the same levels.
ChrisO, I didn’t take that from Fronks article, just calling bullshit on a couple of responses. I thought Frank meant it doesn’t matter what you ride, you get better by hurting yourself. That’s the fun of some of his articles, we can misinterpret them any way we like. People frequently misunderestimate Frank…
@ErikdR
Biggest difference for me is when we come back from being at altitude in Colorado. The years where we spent whole ski seasons out there and became truly acclimatised I’d be flying for about 2-3 weeks on return before the benefit wore off. Even spending 2 weeks out there has a noticeable impact on return to sea level.
Of course the converse is not so great as we have 2 flights of stairs and no lift at the condo. So carrying cases up stairs at 2,900 meters when we arrive is knackering.
@Teocalli.
@Daccordi Rider
Well there’s not much misinterpreting this:
Riding light bikes is fun, but they won’t make you go any faster. Pushing harder on the pedals does
which is quite simply wrong. The same effort on a lighter bike WILL make you go faster. Pushing harder will make you go more faster.
But that would be letting facts get in the way of the story.
@ChrisO
Ref Mark Twain (sub Truth)
@ChrisO
True that, my slant. Light bike won’t make you better by itself, pusher harder fucktards.
@Daccordi Rider
“Unshackled”! Yes, that’s exactly the word I was looking for. Cheers.
I guess it added to the fun that I used to return from those long cycling holidays (France, Italy, Scotland) to, precisely, the Netherlands. I’d have the opportunity to unleash the fitness from cycling lots, combined with the benefits of having trained at altitude, on the pancake-flat tarmac of Cloggyland. Spinning out on 52 x 14 for a week or two; good times.
I’ll probably spend the rest of the day wondering what it means to misunderestimate someone…
@Teocalli
@Teocalli
Hmmm, yes, altitude will work wonders, but it can also be a bitch. I remember a trip to Norway a few winters back (to see the northern light), where we stayed in a hotel at altitude, and I experienced what you describe. Kind of humiliating, to jog up the stairs thinking I was in reasonably good shape, only to start wheezing and swaying after one flight, holding on to the handrail etc…
But upon return to lower levels? Bliss. Pity the effect wears off so quickly though, relatively speaking.
@Daccordi Rider
All kinds of awesome going on in that picture. Great stuff.
@Daccordi Rider
Nice one – in the Bakewell event they give you beer at the mid stop instead of the wine. Though we did have an English sparkling wine handed out at the final stop at Chatsworth House. One other thing that differentiate Eroica events from yer average sportive was being handed a face towel to freshen up at the 80 mile cream tea stop. Sooo very civilised.
@Daccordi Rider
Looks like he’s never missed a day throwing the leg over and ride to what ever the day/road brings! Chapeau and cheers!
@ErikdR
It’s a George W quote from whe he gave up the Presidentship. “All through my career people have misunderestimated me” only W could come up with that and say it with a straight face! God bless America.
@Daccordi Rider
Aha! Thanks for clearing that up – and yes, that does sound like the kind of thing Dubya would come up with. Wasn’t George Jr. also the one who had a hard time remembering that General Zhia Ul Hacq (or however it’s spelled) was the supreme leader of Pakistan – so he went for “General General” instead?
61cm < 6kg ? WOW. That’s a lotta C.
@ErikdR
I’m surprised he didn’t just call him Partner.