Weight Weenies
My bike weighs about 6 kilos. It is no waify little thing either, with it having a 61cm frame and and three stories of seatpost. It has beefy tubes, a stiff bottom bracket and steerer, and deep section wheels which are laced 3x in the back and 2x in front. This bike has never made me go faster; only going faster has made me go faster.
Gianni rode Haleakala in the 80’s on a heavy steel frame with a 42T chainring and a 23T cog in the back. He rode it wearing a cuttoff sleeveless t-shirt; an offense which, had I known when we started this site, I would have put him on probation for. Then he did it again several years later on a titanium, campa-equipped steed with a compact and wearing proper kit. He rode it in about the same time, also proving that you go as fast as you want, not as fast as your bike is.
Gianni Bugno (different Gianni but possibly the source of inspiration for Keeper Gianni’s name), won back-to-back l’Alpe d’Huez stages on a 24-pound steel Moser, beating lighter carbon TVT’s to the punch both times.
Riding light bikes is fun, but they won’t make you go any faster. Pushing harder on the pedals does.
I think we could settle on approximately 6kg, couldn’t we? Just to give us all some room to move…
@Daccordi Rider
Yes – and pronounce it ‘Podnuh’, I suppose?
Weight matters. Just more on you than your bike.
@Teocalli
It was my French teacher who also said “it’s a love hate thing. I love to hate you”
@frank
Why question the obvious?
@Chris
I think you are right it comes from a bond movie, and I think (but have not researched) that Pussy Galore said it.
gert jan theunisse had a training wheel filled with lead, for training purposes needless to say…it worked !(-:
@frank
You got your orange cables!
Training “heavy” may have its benefits but they are fleeting. For example, consider swinging a baseball bat a few times with a weight, then pop the weights off when stepping up to the plate for the pitch. For the first swing or two the bat feels lighter, snappier. But that sensation is gone quickly since the body+mind adapts. Thus its a perceived effect, not an actual one. So, train heavy, train light, whatever: Just ride. If there’s any real benefit of training heavy its durability. Better to have be rolling vs broke down on the side of the road.
@michel02
Willing to lay odds Ol’ Gert had a bit more than lead working in his favor.
@Teocalli
I think steel is likely much more comfortable; Bretto was crushing it on his Jaeger. I simply called bullshit on the notion that you can’t risk a carbon bike or that it would break.
Any material can break on the cobbles; George Hincapie had elected to use an aluminum steerer for the Roubaix to reduce risk of breakage on a carbon steerer. This steerer snapped on the Mons en Pavél secteur.
Also, my Ambrosio Nemesis wheels were much more comfortable on the stones than the Café Roubaix Arenbergs, but as Johan Museeuw pointed out, there are only 50km of cobbles in Roubaix, but 200km of tarmac, so plan accordingly.
@ChrisO
I read these, you know.
@ChrisO
Apparently there is misinterpreting it; the bike is not what makes the bike go, fucktard. Pushing on the pedals does; the bike does not have a motor (we hope). I never said you’d go the same speed on a light and heavy bike.
A light bike, or aero bike, or light wheels, or aero wheels, or better tires, or sleeker kit etc will all make it possible to go faster. But they won’t actually make you go faster.
@ErikdR
If you had spent time living in the US during the Bush Era, you’d know exactly what it means.
I recently aquired a new Surly Pacer; a fully 4130 steel frameset set up with Apex. For the last 5 years I have been riding and racing a Cannondale Caad9. The Caad9, set up with 1st gen Sram Red and light Mavic wheels came in at around about 16.5 lbs. My Pacer comes in at 23.2 lbs. I’ve found myself riding and racing the Pacer exclusively, as the bike fits a tad better (top tube is 5mm shorter) and it is so smooth. It’s funny cause the Pacer feels much slower than the Caad9, but my data (strava) shows other wise; the Pacer is consistently faster over every single type and distance of riding. I attribute this to how smooth the bike rides. Riding up chunky pavement? The Pacer, being as smooth as butter, floats over the road imperfections and allows my power to pour out of the rear wheel unadulterated. Ditto on the descents; the steel bike is unaffected but bumps and pot holes in corners. The only disadvantage, and it’s rare, is when I’m on a climb going slowly and then have to make a much faster jump to cover an attack. The steel bike does require like one or two extra kicks to wind up the frame, but you really have to be paying attention to notice it. The biggest plus with the steel bike is that at hour four and up, I find myself feeling super fresh, it doesn’t feel like someone has been hammering my back, neck and junk.
@Daccordi Rider
Photo of the year right there.
@wilburrox
Actually, I stand corrected. Its 6.3kg; went and dug up the photo of the scale. Its my VMH’s little 51cm R3SL that’s well under 6kg, not mine. But the point still stands; its a light fucking bike, and stiff as shit.
@Oli
The record has been adjusted to reflect this.
Goddamnit, a lot of needless arguing going on here. The whole point is to balance speed with passion. Marginal gains being mentioned? Fuck that.
It’s Friday. I’ll commence Recovery Ales in 4 hours, then I’ll ride my bike to a party. And, on Sunday, I’m riding in a sleeveless t-shirt.
@michel02
Fucking GJT was such a legend!
@Ron
Poetry. And also two demerits.
Frank – I was trying to make Gianni feel a bit less bad about his previous misbehavior being dragged out for everyone to see. I would never actually wear a sleeveless t-shirt, nor a tank top. With or without a bicycle involved.
@frank
O, fuck, why did I sell a Bart Voskamp TVM Gazelle Champion Mondial that I was about to build. Hanging this image in my “service course” to view each day — my mind would’ve been set right each day.
Same Bison-Kit Squad too!
Had the interesting experience of pushing on the pedals hard enough to blow the 16 tooth off my rear cassette (Dura-Ace 11 Speed).
While it’s most likely an Mfr defect I still enjoy the idea that I was transferring so much Rule #10 through the Gun Platforms that I managed to fuck up my bike.
@DeKerr
I did this to a Chorus rear cog. I think it was the 15. Hit the bottom of a climb at speed and sur la plaque. Heard a tinkling sound, it was four pieces of cog hitting the pavement. That was pretty gratifying.
Also, can we pass something extending Rule #24 to weight as well as distance/speed? I haven’t a fucking clue what lbs mean. I’m sure none of the pros weigh their bike in anything other than kgs.
@frank
That’s fucking gangster.
Gert-Jan Theunisse certainly defends Frank’s choice to mount his control levers — level.
@DeKerr
Interesting, that’s not the first report I’ve heard of a DA 11sp cassette failing, from memory @Piwakawaka did something similar recently.
@Mikael Liddy
@Nate
If anything makes you feel like a stud, that does.
I was tearing the pawls off the earlier revision of Zipp freehubs On the local 20% leg breakers and I’d walk into the shop post-warranty telling the lads that one of these days I’d teach Fabian how to pedal a bike.
@Ryan
Bicycle Quarterly has done some interesting research and testing on weight and stiffness with results that counter current trends. Far from conclusive, largely subjective and with an admitted bias (steel/constructeur/randonneur), but they were right about wider tires.
@DeKerr
I have had no such troubles, as my weak legs do not enable such events to occur. Be careful @DeKerr, or the next thing you know, your mighty guns will be snapping the spokes off your rear hub!
@frank
Why was his saddle taped up like that? Some sort of modification for saddle sores?
Here’s a thought. We tend to ride with a given effort, whatever we feel we can do that day. Having a heavier bike will make us go slower for that effort but it’s the effort that gives us the conditioning. Increasing weight will only improve conditioning if you force yourself to go the same speed you would go with a lighter bike. And what are we talking about anyway, .05 km/hour?
That being said, my bike will always be on a diet, the weight inching lower over time because I love light weight stuff. The love is sufficient reason for me.
@frank
Cheers Frank – a lot of that stuff had me in stitches. My favorite would be, I guess: “… Our enemies never stop thinking of new ways to harm our country and our people… and neither do we” That’s political poetry right there… Priceless! But hey, at least the guy was being honest and straightforward about it.
@SteelCamp
Aha! Very well put. But conversely, perhaps, don’t we often make our minds up, prior to the ride, about how far we’d like to go? So the next time I decide to go for a 30 km training spin, the choice between my 8 kg carbon stealth missile and the much heavier steel Moser should be an easy one. I’ll grab the Moser and put in the same amount of effort – but for a (much) longer time. Win! (If I strap a sufficient number of bags of cement to my frame, I might spend all day covering the 30 km… Oh, wait…)
@SteelCamp
Easy enough to work out.
At a power of 300 watts a 75kg rider plus 7kg bike has a power to weight ratio of 3.61w/kg.
On a 12kg bike it is 3.45w/kg.
That’s about a 4.7% reduction in power to weight, or close to 1km/h going up a hill at 20km/h.
@unversio
Those blue Banesto shorts blew my mind when they came out. I loved them; I bought some blue Santini’s shortly after and wore a red santini jersey with it and felt like I looked like a massive stud; I loved watching my legs moving in something other than black.
Oh, youth.
@unversio
Awesome cap luft as usual from indurain.
I never get tired of pix of Gert.
Too bad Gunderson is in the frame, befouling the rainbow jersey.
@Nate
Gert does it with one bottle in the jersey pocket and one cage on the bike.
I have always contended that it is not the bike, but rather the engine (as in rider) that is the most important component. I could ride on the most aerodynamic and lightweight TT bike with the most aerodynamic positioning possible, yet someone like Cancellara would kick my ass while riding a Schwinn Varsity. It comes down to how much power you can put to the pedals.
Nice article. For the record: I am no weight weenie, I go for durable.
@Jay
Well yes, as @Frank also pointed out, the bike doesn’t make anything go, the rider does… so glad we cleared up that area of confusion.
To make such obvious statements as if anyone was arguing about them is missing the point.
I know people like to wax lyrical about steel and that a fast rider on a crap bike will be better than a crap rider on a fast bike. D’uh.
You hit it when you said it comes down to how much power you can put on the pedals. That’s the single constant. You only have so much power at any time. Put that power on a heavy steel bike and give yourself a ‘bad’ position (aerodynamically) and you are throwing away some of what is already a limited resource. Everything matters – just riding on the hoods not the drops will make a 10-20 watt negative difference.
If you want to see and work out some of what goes in to making you go faster have a look at http://www.bikecalculator.com . It’s not 100% but an interesting indicator of what we can do to make the most of what we’ve got, and not waste our improvements.
@Nate
Indurain’s Cap wearing is flawless to the point of frustration, because I know no matter how long I stand in front of the mirror trying to achieve the perfect Luft, it will never look quite as good as his. Fuck.
@ChrisO
Give http://www.bestbikesplit.com a shot if you want to go all nitty-gritty with the details. For those with measured CdA values, you can get to within seconds if actual wind measures up to the value entered.
P.S Hoods are sometimes more aero than the drops, thanks to modern fitting practices. Frank, for example, or Ryder Hesjedal.
@Jay
Question: Would Ultegra be considered more durable than Dura-Ace ? And 105 even more durable still ?
@frank
Once again the meter of seatpost throws me off. The head tube is a telltale sign. Thanks for the clarification. Sweet whip btw.
@frank
Rock star without a band!
@wilburrox
Tiagra, heavy punched steel, a bit of drilling but all the cogs are splined right to the middle rather than milled out and riveted onto a cage, no alloy to speak of, heavy and cheap as fuck.
But why would you ride it. The profiles and teeth patterns are probably at greater tolerances than all the others put together, so your shifting etc is probably going to suffer. The higher spec cassettes have alloy cogs to make weight, which is obviously going to hurt longevity compared to steel.
I ride lower level on my training bike as it is not a problem to change regularly. Can get chain, cassette and chainrings for the price of a dura ace cassette, and my butt doesn’t clench everytime I ride gravel or it starts raining.
@Nate
While I get where you’re coming from re COTHO, his desire to commit to Rule #15 was at least a slightly redeeming feature…