Categories: The BikesThe RidesTraditionUnforgettable Rides

Weight Weenies

Parting the waters on a 24 pound bike.

My bike weighs about 6 kilos. It is no waify little thing either, with it having a 61cm frame and and three stories of seatpost. It has beefy tubes, a stiff bottom bracket and steerer, and deep section wheels which are laced 3x in the back and 2x in front. This bike has never made me go faster; only going faster has made me go faster.

Gianni rode Haleakala in the 80’s on a heavy steel frame with a 42T chainring and a 23T cog in the back. He rode it wearing a cuttoff sleeveless t-shirt; an offense which, had I known when we started this site, I would have put him on probation for. Then he did it again several years later on a titanium, campa-equipped steed with a compact and wearing proper kit. He rode it in about the same time, also proving that you go as fast as you want, not as fast as your bike is.

Gianni Bugno (different Gianni but possibly the source of inspiration for Keeper Gianni’s name), won back-to-back l’Alpe d’Huez stages on a 24-pound steel Moser, beating lighter carbon TVT’s to the punch both times.

Riding light bikes is fun, but they won’t make you go any faster. Pushing harder on the pedals does.

frank

The founder of Velominati and curator of The Rules, Frank was born in the Dutch colonies of Minnesota. His boundless physical talents are carefully canceled out by his equally boundless enthusiasm for drinking. Coffee, beer, wine, if it’s in a container, he will enjoy it, a lot of it. He currently lives in Seattle. He loves riding in the rain and scheduling visits with the Man with the Hammer just to be reminded of the privilege it is to feel completely depleted. He holds down a technology job the description of which no-one really understands and his interests outside of Cycling and drinking are Cycling and drinking. As devoted aesthete, the only thing more important to him than riding a bike well is looking good doing it. Frank is co-author along with the other Keepers of the Cog of the popular book, The Rules, The Way of the Cycling Disciple and also writes a monthly column for the magazine, Cyclist. He is also currently working on the first follow-up to The Rules, tentatively entitled The Hardmen. Email him directly at rouleur@velominati.com.

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View Comments

Beers says:

Jun 25 2015 at 9:36 pm

@Daccordi Rider

Train heavy, race light is one of the biggest myths out there. Ever seen a pro jump on a heavy bike to train? Training is simple, effort (watts) and heart rate. You can only push out so many watts or get your heart rate to X. The weight of the bike makes no difference to what your physiology allows you to do and improvements you can make via training properly.

Given a set max heart rate, and a set max wattage, a heavier/less aero bike will have you hitting your ceilings sooner on hills/in wind, and for longer seeing as it is slower over the same distance. What you say is true, if you rode at your maximums for the same length of time on a good bike and a shit bike, your body has done the same amount of work. But when you would be finished on your good bike, you are probably still a fair way away from home when riding the shit bike, because over the distance you are slower. Therefore you spend longer riding at your maximums to get home. More time at max = greater training progression.

Did you see the chap ride Ventoux on a Boris bike? Same wattage, same max heart rate, but I bet he would have made the top faster on a lighter bike with less rolling resistance in the tyres and a more aero position. His body would have done less work against 1) friction through tyres 2)gravity as he has less mass to accelerate on the vertical vector up the hill and 3)wind resistance.

If you want to improve your FTP, you need to spend more time at threshold right? So a shit bike will put you in the hurt locker sooner and for longer. Minimal gains and all that.

But really, it's more fun to ride faster on a nice bike (whether you see it as heavy or light) and just push yourself harder, which is what I think the big man is getting at. So who gives a fuck about the theory.
frank says:

Jun 25 2015 at 9:37 pm

@The Pressure

@frank 61cm?? I thought you would have subscribed to the popular ‘down-sized’ trend. I also ride a 61 at 6’4″ and was considering downsizing…who knew?

My frame is downsized. Your height does not relate to frame size; your physique does.

Not to mention that a frame size is not frame size is a not a frame size. Pay attention to geometry, not labels. The most important dimension for me is the head tube length (19.5cm or less).
Barracuda says:

Jun 25 2015 at 9:45 pm

@frank

I love that no one is questioning my facts on how much Gianni sucks at climbing.

There's a quoted source somewhere, I just cant be arsed finding it, and I'm not even dutch !
frank says:

Jun 25 2015 at 9:48 pm

@Ccos

@JohnB

Train heavy, race light. Simple.

When I was 10, I had this nutty idea of wearing a weighted suit around to get “super hero strength.” It didn’t really work all that well (actually not at all, but we’re talking little kid logic here). I think a lot of folks train heavy (re: fat) and race light (re: less fat). I’m not so sure that works all that well either.

I rode all of Keepers Tour with a seized bottom bracket. Since replacing it, I've been fucking flying. Also commuting with a backpack and then riding without seems to help, but all that is pretty anecdotal.

I think it has more to do with morale than science, but I'm the first to tell you a good head with a bad body will do you more good than a good body with a bad head.
Daccordi Rider says:

Jun 25 2015 at 9:54 pm

@Beers

@Daccordi Rider

Train heavy, race light is one of the biggest myths out there. Ever seen a pro jump on a heavy bike to train? Training is simple, effort (watts) and heart rate. You can only push out so many watts or get your heart rate to X. The weight of the bike makes no difference to what your physiology allows you to do and improvements you can make via training properly.

Given a set max heart rate, and a set max wattage, a heavier/less aero bike will have you hitting your ceilings sooner on hills/in wind, and for longer seeing as it is slower over the same distance. What you say is true, if you rode at your maximums for the same length of time on a good bike and a shit bike, your body has done the same amount of work. But when you would be finished on your good bike, you are probably still a fair way away from home when riding the shit bike, because over the distance you are slower. Therefore you spend longer riding at your maximums to get home. More time at max = greater training progression.

Did you see the chap ride Ventoux on a Boris bike? Same wattage, same max heart rate, but I bet he would have made the top faster on a lighter bike with less rolling resistance in the tyres and a more aero position. His body would have done less work against 1) friction through tyres 2)gravity as he has less mass to accelerate on the vertical vector up the hill and 3)wind resistance.

If you want to improve your FTP, you need to spend more time at threshold right? So a shit bike will put you in the hurt locker sooner and for longer. Minimal gains and all that.

But really, it’s more fun to ride faster on a nice bike (whether you see it as heavy or light) and just push yourself harder, which is what I think the big man is getting at. So who gives a fuck about the theory.

We seem to be in basic agreement, you will ride further on the good bike and enjoy it more so get more benefit both to body and mind! Recently some guys in Australia did an Everesting on those free town bikes, 18 kg and 3 spd. Now there is no doubt that was good training, if a tad insane!
SteelCamp says:

Jun 25 2015 at 10:15 pm

How about a picture of the <6 kilo bike
Nate says:

Jun 25 2015 at 10:46 pm

@frank

A rider is made up of two parts, a mind and a body. The mind is the more important part.
Nate says:

Jun 25 2015 at 10:49 pm

@piwakawaka

@Nate

It’s fun to have a light bike but I hope none of you are rocking silly lightweight skewers or brakes.

@frank must be, to get a 61cm under 6kgs…

It's been about a year since I saw @franks bike but iirc he has it set up with record 10 brakes and proper skewers.
Daccordi Rider says:

Jun 25 2015 at 11:06 pm

Franks bike is up there, ^ with it's oddly positioned hoods....
ChrisO says:

Jun 26 2015 at 12:07 am

@Daccordi Rider

@Beers

@Daccordi Rider

Train heavy, race light is one of the biggest myths out there. Ever seen a pro jump on a heavy bike to train? Training is simple, effort (watts) and heart rate. You can only push out so many watts or get your heart rate to X. The weight of the bike makes no difference to what your physiology allows you to do and improvements you can make via training properly.

Given a set max heart rate, and a set max wattage, a heavier/less aero bike will have you hitting your ceilings sooner on hills/in wind, and for longer seeing as it is slower over the same distance. What you say is true, if you rode at your maximums for the same length of time on a good bike and a shit bike, your body has done the same amount of work. But when you would be finished on your good bike, you are probably still a fair way away from home when riding the shit bike, because over the distance you are slower. Therefore you spend longer riding at your maximums to get home. More time at max = greater training progression.

You are both totally correct - that's why the competitive cycling world works on power to weight numbers.

I thought of pointing this out when I read the article but then I thought better of it.

Sometimes Frank likes to write utter bollocks and to intrude on it would be like pointing out the plot holes in Jurassic World. Steel Bikes and Bugno are the cycling equivalent of Raptors and Rexes. Just accept the fantasy.