Velominati Super Prestige: Giro D’Italia 2013
Twiggo is dreaming of a Giro-Tour double. He has sent out mixed messages about his Tour ambitions. Will he use the Giro as the ultimate Tour preparation or will be burn all his matches in May and hope he can find another pack for July? He has abandoned his successful 2012 Tour run-up strategy of winning every stage race he entered the previous spring. Now it’s the seclusion of Mount Doom of Tenerife, his coach and his watt meter his only competition. Team Sky is supporting Wig with a very strong squad, including superman, Kanstantsin Siutsou and with Cav no longer a teammate, it’s all the knights of the round table for Sir Twig.
Will the curse of the god-awful Astana kit continue to haunt non-Kazahk riders? Can Vincenzo’s Italian mojo overpower its powerful pale blue and yellow aura? Roman Kreuziger was finally able to win a big race once he shed that kit and pulled on one of Bjarne’s Saxo jerseys. Maybe it was more Bjarne and less jersey that made the difference.
Ryder gets no respect as the defending champion. His little dance at the end of Liége-Bastogne-Liége showed he is fit and ready for a fight. He can time trial, he can climb. Personally I have to back the local boy. And I always hate the overpowered, overwhelming favorite (read Team Sky here) in any race, unless that racer is Fabian Cancellara. No one can say Fabs has won a race this year surrounded with a team as strong as Sky’s. The Shack is just the Shack or a shack. Once Cancellara leaves for the Swiss “I AM” team, it’s lights out in the shack. Frandy, don’t forget to turn out ’em out when you leave.
If Cavendish wins the first day’s sprinter’s stage he will be in pink. He may be out of it after stage two, a team time trial.
But this is the Giro: crazy, unexpected, beautiful things can happen. The spinning wheels of fortuna are less predictable in Italy as they are in France in July. The betting window is now open. The complete start list is not yet available, an incomplete one is here and shall be updated soon. So sleep on your picks, wait for all the teams to make it official, unless you want to go with the obvious all Sky podium. The race begins Saturday so don’t Delgado away a Grand Tour opportunity.
[vsp_results id=”23343″/]
@Deakus
The Society of Luddites is looking for new members! So, too, is the Flat Earth Society. Velominati are better than that! There is no reason that batteries will fail more than gear cables snap or stretch. Elect reduces chance of dropping chain, reduces problems of cross-chaining because it has auto-indexing. It does not change cycling from being human-powered. Just as as putting gear change on handle bars rather than down tubes made gear changing quicker and more efficient, so does elect. It is not as if the battery is powering a motor to drive the bike forward. With that attitude we’d still be riding PennyFarthings instead of the technologically advanced machines we all take pride in. Or we’d still be transporting our bikes in horsedrawn wagons instead of the now accepted automobile.
In the rare case of electronic failure, the bike can still be ridden in an intermediate gear. With cable snap, or even over stretch that happens with mech gears that is most probably not possible.
How come we accept carBon frames, carbon wheels, ultra-light tyres, tyres with puncture resistant layers, blade spokes, computer designed aerodynamic frames, cleats-on-shoes, carbon-soled shoes, Teflon lubes, wireless computers, I-phones and iPods, Lycra kit? All in their own ways have been eventually welcomed as great advances over the now discarded old rubbish.
Guess I will need to show up for the next McCogal in a maglia rosa then. ‘kin-A.
bzzzzzt…ping, ping, ping.
Final results have erupted from the VSP generator. They look much like yesterday’s results. @Strathlubnaig has pulled victory from defeet. He might win some defeet schwag, I’m not sure of the official prize but it will Rule. Bragging rights are prize enough for now.
Also, chapeau to Donnie Bugno for his strong work here. Who knew getting your picks in early would help. I put mine in five minutes late and got Delgadoed, but I would have had a lowly two points anyway. I suck.
Stairclimber, dude, we will confer with Frank (who is communing with the sasquatch again)and the generator. I don’t know how to rectify your “problem” other than a good psychopharmacologist.
@Gianni Thankyou for the Official Update from VSP Central HQ, Gianni. I shall bask for a time in the unexpected glory of my first grand tour victory and try to honour the jersey. Not sure I can do a GT double though.
@DocBrian
Not so much a Luddite, as just wanting a decent return on investment. Once most of the bugs have been ironed out, and the price represents value for money, I’ll happily go electronic. But I’ve alwasy considered that early adoption is for people with too much money, too much time, or both.
I wouldn’t consider Wiggo to be a Luddite for insisting on mech Dura Ace for the Giro after his bike-throwing Di2 problem pre-Giro. Possibly an over-reaction after one problem (in public – who knows how many in private), but he obviously saw some value in going back.
Mechanical problems do seem to have joined doping as prime online discussion points. Maybe we are having no more than previous, but they are just reported more. These cycling websites have to generate their content from somewhere…
@DocBrian
Because they make the bike go faster. Adding weight doesn’t. Nibali notably used mechanical Campag in the Giro after using EPS in previous races.
@minion
Most assessments show that despite slightly greater weight, elect gears save significant amounts of time over even moderate distances because of their greater efficiency, mainly in their speed of gear change. Sometimes efficiency beats lighter weight. Some heavy tyres have lower rolling resistance that overcomes their extra 30 or 40 grams. Some riders prefer slightly heavier tyres because, in general, they last longer and are more trouble-free. Some aero wheels are heavier than standard rims, but much more efficient in many cases. Ultegra elect is much heavier than DuraAce, and even DuraAce Di2 is somewhat heavier than mech DuraAce, but gains in efficiency. 11speed mech gears are significantly heavier than 10 speed mech, but have efficiency advantages. Some riders prefer alloy bars over carbon bars, thinking of them as more durable even though they might someway what heavier.
@Gianni
Chapeau @Strathlubnaig
@Gianni ‘Stairclimber’. Lol. Oh, and I like to be my own pychopharmacologist, so I’d best be adjusting the dosage up, way way up, past 11 perhaps. Keeping away from the MRB’s, sadly, as I’m ‘actually’ peaking in under 2 months, and I’m a geriatric FATTY.
@DocBrian Think Cadel’s laboring on his over-geared bike on Saturday wasnt that efficient.
“Most assessments show that despite slightly greater weight, elect gears save significant amounts of time over even moderate distances because of their greater efficiency, mainly in their speed of gear change…”
I call bullshit on that. Yep, electronic gearing might be easier, and maybe faster in the gear change itself. Not sure how this somehow equates to “significant amounts of time over even moderate distances”?
Two words for you: Mavic Mektronic.
Congrats strathlubnaig. great racing. Yesterday’s stage was a nail biter watching Cadel drop from 2 nd to 3rd.
@ChrisO I’ve been using di2 for about 8 months. 100% reliable and the comparison of time needed to be spent on maintenance compared to mechanical is stark. Apart from a monthly recharge, done more as precaution than need, there is zero necessity to tune etc so the gears work perfect every time, reaffirming Velominati rule of silence.
The only thing I’ve noticed is that after training on it for 8 months on rides requiring little gear changes; when I raced at Port Macquarie recently on a hilly course requiring numerous gear changes I woke up the next day with a sore wrist! The di2 has made changing gears so easy my formerly muscular wrist area had withered into an insipid lacklustre tool.
@marcus
Buh bing. +1 on that BS call.
Subsequent clarification from Cuddles suggests that perhaps ice or snow prevented the upshift to the last two cogs. Would have beenb a bitch not having those last two gears on an 18% finishing gradient.
Had a quick spin on a friends bike equipped with Super Record electronic gears and was surprised at how the shift action was so similar to a mechanical system, I guess they are trying to replicate the “feel” of mechanical shifters, I think they should have gone for the lightest possible action just to make more of a difference, the only real advantage I can see is the auto trim, but tuning gears isn’t so hard and you might learn something when you do it! It would be a shame if bikes went the way of cars where I can’t even give someone a jump start because I can’t even get at my battery, let alone service the damn car because I don’t own the diagnostic computer to plug it into!
@marcus
His gear problem was snow jamming mechanics of his dérailleur, nil tondo with electronics. Could happen even with the best of mech shifters
@Bianchi Denti
Woah, really there are only 2 PRO squads on SRAM this year? It did seem like everyone was on it. One of my good riding pals, who has man insanely nice bikes, had SRAM on all of them until recently. Then he picked up a Colnago C-50 with Record 11. Now he’s fallen back in love with Campa, while I’ve been riding Centaur on two bikes for awhile. Hmmm.
@HeinrichHausslersHairstyle
Amen to another who has moved to the Church of Electronic Shifting. May Di2 forever be with you.
Road cyclists have an unhealthy obsession with shaving even 50 grams at the expense of all else.
Functionality is as important as weight. Any bike under 9kg is light enough, and most of us have bikes that are 8kg or less.
Yesterday I fell on some thick gravel. My Castelli Lightness gloves were as good as paper. The extremely thin layer of leather slashed straight through and I ended up with a deep gouge on my palm.
I immediately remedied this situation with some proper gloves that provide more protection than an equivalent amount of rice paper.
Ditto for radial lacing instead of 3 cross, carbon drop bars, etc. (I do run carbon bars on my MTB since they are super tough).
@G’rilla thats the MTBer in you. My Niner ways a ton. the tires alone are 1750 grams(tubeless) but that thing can roll over anything, and is fun a hell ti ride(the most important aspect of MTBing)
@RedRanger
@DocBrian
Too true. In fact, with indexing at the derailleur instead of at the shifter, Di2 would probably perform better in mashing snow out of the way than cable shifting. So it must have been really bad!
@DocBrian no knocks on electronic shifting – i just query your call that,
“Most assessments show that despite slightly greater weight, elect gears save significant amounts of time over even moderate distances because of their greater efficiency, mainly in their speed of gear change…”
Sounds like absolute bullshit to me.
@DocBrian
Instead of working through that point by point, I think the below image covers most of it. CRR is a function of materials rather than weight, (butyl has higher CRR than latex which has a higher CRR than silk – you won’t see any continental competitions tires at the Olympics on track bikes, and the version the pros use is reported to have a latex inner rather than the Butyl inner tube that the consumer version has). A set of tubular 404s weigh 1350 grams which is considerably less than most durable ‘standard’ clinchers, so you get lower weight AND significant aero benefits. DI2 Ultegra (elect, by the way is a different word with a different meaning, which means it is’t really a good substitute) is considerably heavier than DI2 Dura Ace and Mech dura ace, but adds around $1000 to the price of most bikes that it is fitted to. So you pay more to have a heavier bike that does the same thing as cables. I’m also skeptical about the claim that faster shifts result in quantifiable benefits. So, for me right now electronic shifting is
@DocBrian
Now look what you have done. You have caused Minion and I to agree on something. This has never happened before.
@DocBrian & HHH
I think it is fundamentally wrong to have electronic assistance for something that formerly had to be done mechanically. It’s against the spirit of bike riding.
That’s the clear difference with all the other innovations you cited. Lycra replacing wool, aero helmets, tri bars, carbon frames and shoes, integrated shifters, bike computers… none of them is providing a power source external to the rider.
If as you claim it really is more efficient then that efficiency has come from electricity.
Let’s say someone developed a KERS type system for a bike, which stored excess power from descents in a hub-based auxiliary motor or a hub-braking system ? Maybe it would provide an extra 20-30 watts going back up a climb, maybe it would mean the rider didn’t have to control his brakes so much. It was the rider’s own power and gravity in the first place. How do you draw a line between that and DI2/EPS ? I certainly don’t see a conceptual difference.
What if the stage to Tre Cime or this year’s M-SR was won because one rider was able to shift gears by pressing a button, while another had fingers so cold he couldn’t manage to shift. The advantage is electronic, not mechanical. I can only assume the UCI has allowed it under pressure from the manufacturers looking for something to sell as an upgrade.
Go ahead, use it and love it… but in my mind when I see a rider with electric shifting, I think Cheat.
@ChrisO good point. Will replace immediately.
@HeinrichHausslersHairstyle That’s the spirit. You can probably sell it to a triathlete – they don’t care.
I will never suggest to any living person that they sign into this bullshitnblog, run by self-opinionated morons who seem intent on rubbishing anything that could take them out if the dark ages. Fuck yourselves silly
@ Cold Cadel with frozen gears: I may be wrong but electronics and cold temperatures often don’t mix. It did sound like a simple physical impairment though.
As a general observation: electric gruppo’s seem very popular but plenty of people still win races on mechanical too. Juu nin to iro. (Japanese: each to their own)
@ Doc Brian; tell us what you really think. Or just have a beer and look at the sunset for a while.
@DocBrian
That raises an interesting question – would you suggest fucking ourselves with our own cocks or an electric vibrator ?
@DocBrian suit yourself champ. But all that has happened here is that you have made an outlandish statement that you have not been able to back up.
If only I could fuck myself silly- I would never stop.
@ChrisO this fuckin guy has got me agreeing with you and Minion. Can only guess that I have fucked myself silly?
@Marcus Certainly wasn’t me. I have to draw the line somewhere.
Not so sure about Minion though.
@HeinrichHausslersHairstyle
You got to be careful……that limp wrist could get you in all sorts of trouble……(cue semicolon, cloe brackets! )
okay who moved the 4th of July up, i tell ya i step away to take care of that job thing and someone let the nukes go. i hate when i miss a party,
oh and for the record i’m a mech kind of guy, i do not see the rational for ele, ( Snake oil in my book)
@strathlubnaig Strong work on the VSP! chapeau .
@strathlubnaig
Chapeau.
The pink jersey fitted me very well when I wore it for a day at the start – as you know I’m a prologue specialist and no good in the mountains although I Climb Well For My Weight.
What were the odds of the leader’s jersey in an international competition being worn by two people from a village in the middle of nowhere? Is Callander the Bogota of the Velominati?
@ChrisO I’ve got mechanical gears as well…on my tri-bike.
I’m still working on moving all the bikes to 10-s. Then I’ll have to take it to 11 before I even consider electronic. Thus, I have plenty of time for the engineers and everyone else to continue riding it before I even need to think about trying out an electronic gruppo.
Been out of favour with cycling for a while and became a bit of a velomivoyeur, got too fat to climb and all of it, but have finally rediscovered the wonder of it all and dragged myself out for a decent ride on Saturday and passed – while feeling “I have good legs today” – a Colnago C59 with EPS and ………disk brakes. Slowed and chatted to the guy about them, he was pretty happy with it but said the bike (and rims) felt heavier – just can’t see myself going for either. Disk brakes are just wrong on a road bike.
@ChrisO
Hey Frank. I think you need to change the tag line for the website to DocBrian’s prescient description.
@HeinrichHausslersHairstyle
Oh hey. And Haussler won a stage today.
@Ron
I cant imagine going to 11 spd as it is bad enough wearing out the 10 spd chain every 1500km !
@DocBrian
Funny how when people give an opinion around here, and don’t like getting criticism back, it’s like the end of the world. Personally, I could give a fuck wether Elect works better than Mech systems. As someone above stated, it adds $1000 (at least) to the price. Pushing a button, vs flexing my wrist 4 inches doesn’t seem worth the $$. And while they may shift perfect every time, again, 45seconds at the rear barrel adjuster, once after the cables stretch, seems like no big thing to me. I’ve test driven Di2, and it’s nice, but I like the feel of mech shifters.
My 2 pence.
@strathlubnaig congrats! Its a holiday weekend here in the US, so Im guessing the keepers are all out in the woods getting drunk. at least thats what I would do if I lived near woods.
Is it just me, or did Vincenzo Nibali win a Barbie Dream House throne?
@mouse
In that case, Andy to win the Tour?
@eenies That would be something
@Erik
I was watching highlights with my 3 year old and she went into fits when she saw that chair: “I have that chair, I have that chair! It’s up in my dollhouse!”
@strathlubnaig
+1. Visiting the mountains of Gran Canaria this summer and hiring a bike, Cannondale, 10 speed mechanical shifting. However. I do intend to hire a Di2 dura ace equipped machine for a couple days just to see what all the fuss on electronic shifting is. Can’t see me buying it anytime soon though, wife and kids to feed and clothe and its no gonna make me any faster than some real training would. No question its seen as Gucci kit, there’s plenty of that in the sport but that’s primarily the domain of those with plenty of free cash. Jury out til jury wins the lotto.
@JohnB
Where are you riding in GC?
The climb up from Mogan to 2/3 way up is one of the best climbs anywhere – bit shitty on up to the top of the mountain after that, but glorious up to that point, and what a descent! 10/10 – mind you, it’s in a sheltered gully, so make sure you have plenty of water and and ice maker on your top tube, coz it’s gonna be frikking hot in the summer
http://app.strava.com/segments/843156